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Wednesday, March 28, 2012

RE: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

You leave the tissue and dead crap in the canal. Ever smell one of these putrid things when you open them up and the tooth is sensitive to hot. You know there is live tissue somewhere.

Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.

The Swamp

Douglas, GA 31533

912-384-7400

This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.

From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken siegel
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:00 PM
To: wmdomb@verizon.net
Cc: Mark Malterud; schminsk@bellsouth.net; gnr
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

The laser tip never enters the root. It just sends the acoustic wave down the roots from the tip going into the pulp chamber.

Sent from my iPad


On May 27, 2012, at 5:31 PM, "William Domb" <wmdomb@verizon.net> wrote:

Of course that sounds promising, but doesn’t tell me enough to be wholly confident.

As I note, just keeping stuff from growing is a nice but incomplete data point.

Acoustic waves are enough to fracture off chunks of enamel and dentin when using hard tissue lasers, so I’d be naturally concerned, particularly as you get down to the extremely thin and friable apical area.

Minimally invasive: some Europeans are just depositing ozone into the PDL and periapical tissues and not ingressing the tooth internals at all. Now THAT’s minimally invasive. Very little hard data except verbal reports that I can scare up so far.

We need to be looking at the conventional macro parameters of endo success—lack of erythema, edema, mobility, pain, drainage, mobility, etc. AND we need to look at other measure such as CRP, PLAC2, immunomodulation, antigenic percolation and all that good stuff.

regards

bill domb

Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:23 AM

Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

Bill,

It's not the heat its the acoustic wave from what I can tell and there is research that I will get for you once I have been to Colonnas. They allowed the teeth and inside of the canals to have a very rich C.Dif biofilm and infiltration and then PIPSed the canals and virtually found no living C Dif. upon culturing. It's more of a flush and fill technique as I see it. Very little if any instrumentation so it is about as minimally invasive as you can get when it comes to Endo.

Mark

On May 27, 2012, at 10:26 AM, William Domb wrote:



Hi, John--

We got any research from them? From other than them?

Would be surprised if it truly got all the tubules free of bugs and necrotic debris without being cranked up high enough to do physical damage to root where it gets thin as well as damage to PDL cells.

regards

bill domb

Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:57 AM

Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

I've been happy with it so far, but I don't tackle very difficult cases. That's what specialists are for. If it can increase the efficiency and quality of routine endo, then I'm for it.

Also very seriously looking at the PIPS technique using the Lightwalker laser. This concept seems too good to be true! Any ACEers using it?

Here's a link to their site with clinical videos.

In a nutshell, the laser shoots a photoacouistic wave down the canal, so it cleans out all the canal contents including fins and lateral canals, without hogging out the canal the way we usually do to get enough bleach in it. Sounds like you can totally clean and disinfect the entire root canal system without severely weakening the tooth. Cool!

John Highsmith DDS
Clyde, NC
AACD Accredited Dentist
LVI Clinical Instructor
Diplomate, ICOI
Fellow, Misch Implant Institute
DrHighsmith.com

On May 27, 2012, at 7:42 AM, gary l henkel dds wrote:

I’m in agreement with guy on this one. It requires a very large, expensive motor, claims to be a single file system but in actuality multiple files are often required in actual use It has some big names behind its development, so has developed some following, but when I presented with some endodontic community opinion leaders at loma linda recently, representing another manufacturer, many of the hands on participants were not as impressed with it as with several of the other products being offered in the hands on. Having said that, excellent results can be achieved with it, as with all systems, if proper attention to shaping and irrigation and obturation is given. Files only shape. Irrigants disinfect. Fill systems or protocols obturate. All are important for long term endodontic success.

But guy, you and I have been doing endo long enough that we both know that you cannot treat ALL teeth with rotaries, regardless of manufacturer. Sometimes, judicious use of hand instrumentation gives us our best chance in highly curved or deeply split cases. That’s why having a couple of alternative “systems” in office and combine that with good training and clinical experience gives us the best chance of success.

gary

Gary L. Henkel DDS MAGD

Horsham Dental Elements ( Pine Run Dental and Implant Center)

301 Horsham Rd

Horsham, Pa. 19044

2156726666

Philadelphia Center City Office

1601 Walnut St. Suite 1501

Philadelphia, Pa. 19102

215 5639769

From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken siegel
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:23 PM
To: toothpick44@gmail.com
Cc: acesthetics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

Im still liking. The system


Ken Siegel



-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system
From: Guy Moorman <toothpick44@gmail.com>
To: Ken siegel <kensiegel@onlymyemail.com>
CC: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system


Unusual. This system's main advantage is a small number of files and reciprocation reducing risk to some degree. It will not adequately do many teeth, especially truly calcified molars. This is stated straight up by developers of the system. I've used the system on a fair number of teeth and find it lacking compared to true rotary systems like Protapers and Twisted Files finishing with a landed file like the K3. It simply will not adequately do all teeth. Rotary will. I fail to see the point in purchasing it in place of a good rotary system. Brassler has a new system but I find the files frail. Guy

On Apr 26, 2012 2:02 PM, "Ken siegel" <kensiegel@onlymyemail.com> wrote:

I know there was some discussion about the wave one endo system a little while ago. The people on the Lightwalker Laser forum had recommended it so I finally bought the system. From the few end's that I have done with it I will have to say that it is really terrific. I just did an endo on #30 that was calcified as hell. The Waveone system handled the canals like a champ. I really would have been afraid to take a traditional NiTi file down the canals but it was a real pleasure. So anyone who is thinking about the system I have to say I am very pleased.

Ken

Kenneth Siegel, D.M.D.

Dental Excellence of Blue Bell

706 Dekalb Pike

Blue Bell, Pa. 19422

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RE: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

If you do not instrument, you cannot adequately fill unless you are doing paste only. You need proper shape of some taper. I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer…Bill is…but unless you are doing paste only they you need shaping and sizing to fill the canals. Heck, you can do Sargenti and it works like a charm…as long as you don’t blow it out the apex. Sargenti would probably be one of our better techniques if we could keep it in the canal. We can’t in enough cases to make it dangerous.

Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.

The Swamp

Douglas, GA 31533

912-384-7400

This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.

From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Malterud
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:24 PM
To: wmdomb@verizon.net
Cc: schminsk@bellsouth.net; gnr
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

Bill,

It's not the heat its the acoustic wave from what I can tell and there is research that I will get for you once I have been to Colonnas. They allowed the teeth and inside of the canals to have a very rich C.Dif biofilm and infiltration and then PIPSed the canals and virtually found no living C Dif. upon culturing. It's more of a flush and fill technique as I see it. Very little if any instrumentation so it is about as minimally invasive as you can get when it comes to Endo.

Mark

On May 27, 2012, at 10:26 AM, William Domb wrote:



Hi, John--

We got any research from them? From other than them?

Would be surprised if it truly got all the tubules free of bugs and necrotic debris without being cranked up high enough to do physical damage to root where it gets thin as well as damage to PDL cells.

regards

bill domb

Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:57 AM

Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

I've been happy with it so far, but I don't tackle very difficult cases. That's what specialists are for. If it can increase the efficiency and quality of routine endo, then I'm for it.

Also very seriously looking at the PIPS technique using the Lightwalker laser. This concept seems too good to be true! Any ACEers using it?

Here's a link to their site with clinical videos.

In a nutshell, the laser shoots a photoacouistic wave down the canal, so it cleans out all the canal contents including fins and lateral canals, without hogging out the canal the way we usually do to get enough bleach in it. Sounds like you can totally clean and disinfect the entire root canal system without severely weakening the tooth. Cool!

John Highsmith DDS
Clyde, NC
AACD Accredited Dentist
LVI Clinical Instructor
Diplomate, ICOI
Fellow, Misch Implant Institute
DrHighsmith.com

On May 27, 2012, at 7:42 AM, gary l henkel dds wrote:

I’m in agreement with guy on this one. It requires a very large, expensive motor, claims to be a single file system but in actuality multiple files are often required in actual use It has some big names behind its development, so has developed some following, but when I presented with some endodontic community opinion leaders at loma linda recently, representing another manufacturer, many of the hands on participants were not as impressed with it as with several of the other products being offered in the hands on. Having said that, excellent results can be achieved with it, as with all systems, if proper attention to shaping and irrigation and obturation is given. Files only shape. Irrigants disinfect. Fill systems or protocols obturate. All are important for long term endodontic success.

But guy, you and I have been doing endo long enough that we both know that you cannot treat ALL teeth with rotaries, regardless of manufacturer. Sometimes, judicious use of hand instrumentation gives us our best chance in highly curved or deeply split cases. That’s why having a couple of alternative “systems” in office and combine that with good training and clinical experience gives us the best chance of success.

gary

Gary L. Henkel DDS MAGD

Horsham Dental Elements ( Pine Run Dental and Implant Center)

301 Horsham Rd

Horsham, Pa. 19044

2156726666

Philadelphia Center City Office

1601 Walnut St. Suite 1501

Philadelphia, Pa. 19102

215 5639769

From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken siegel
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:23 PM
To: toothpick44@gmail.com
Cc: acesthetics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system

Im still liking. The system


Ken Siegel



-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system
From: Guy Moorman <toothpick44@gmail.com>
To: Ken siegel <kensiegel@onlymyemail.com>
CC: Re: [ACEsthetics] Waveone system


Unusual. This system's main advantage is a small number of files and reciprocation reducing risk to some degree. It will not adequately do many teeth, especially truly calcified molars. This is stated straight up by developers of the system. I've used the system on a fair number of teeth and find it lacking compared to true rotary systems like Protapers and Twisted Files finishing with a landed file like the K3. It simply will not adequately do all teeth. Rotary will. I fail to see the point in purchasing it in place of a good rotary system. Brassler has a new system but I find the files frail. Guy

On Apr 26, 2012 2:02 PM, "Ken siegel" <kensiegel@onlymyemail.com> wrote:

I know there was some discussion about the wave one endo system a little while ago. The people on the Lightwalker Laser forum had recommended it so I finally bought the system. From the few end's that I have done with it I will have to say that it is really terrific. I just did an endo on #30 that was calcified as hell. The Waveone system handled the canals like a champ. I really would have been afraid to take a traditional NiTi file down the canals but it was a real pleasure. So anyone who is thinking about the system I have to say I am very pleased.

Ken

Kenneth Siegel, D.M.D.

Dental Excellence of Blue Bell

706 Dekalb Pike

Blue Bell, Pa. 19422

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RE: [ACEsthetics] VENTING!!

I have interest in you financing program and I have not led my partners there. They would collect the money at the door if I had not told them that was poor taste. At least wait until they get to the op. I'm still financing some patients but they finance no one and I agree totally they are leaving money on the table and a ton of it…30% of gross. I do my best to make all my treatment affordable. They read it off the fee schedule and charge all they can. Sometimes is it better to tell the patient you are knocking off that 450 buck fee for an interim bridge if they will go ahead and do it now. I'll do half when we start and half when we finish. They are all up front. That does not work here. I'm sure it works in many places so don't jump down my throat.

Bruce I'm very interested in your finance program and would like all the info I can get. As I've posted, many years ago I was 100% up front and I read an article in a throw away that said, "A/R 100%...You are probably losing 30% of your gross.". I stated trying their advice on in-office finance. Gross collections went up over 30%.

Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.

The Swamp

Douglas, GA 31533

912-384-7400

This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.

From: Bruce Baird [mailto:bbbaird1@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:06 AM
To: gmoor@windstream.net
Cc: <terryfrey@relax2smile.com>; <drvoller@comcast.net>; ACE
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] VENTING!!

Guy you are leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table and have eliminated over 50% of the people in your community from getting the care they need and that they would gladly pay for from coming to your office. Your guidance on this to your partners is dead wrong and will put them in rough waters as the commoditization of dentistry occurs due to corporate greed. If you have any interest in understanding this I would be glad to have further discussions.

Sent from my iPhone

Have a blessed day,

Bruce


On May 27, 2012, at 7:07 AM, "Guy Moorman" <gmoor@windstream.net> wrote:

That's exactly what I told my partners, Terry. When we started 99% of the people who came in absolutely wanted to pay you. Now it is about 70%. In 1975 I could do in-office financing and never worry about getting paid…not true today. We've had to push all clients to outside finance because of that 30% and I tell patients the reason and it is written in the front for them to read. It is a different world. I told my partners to get their money first. It is going to get worse.

Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.

The Swamp

Douglas, GA 31533

912-384-7400

This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.

From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Terry Frey, D.D.S.
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:55 PM
To: drvoller@comcast.net; ACE
Subject: [ACEsthetics] VENTING!!

Ray … I believe you are just seeing the "beginning" of this type of thing getting a lot worse. I would imagine that there are thousands of us out there that have run into the same thing. I'm like you in that I appreciate ACErs being available for venting. I'm afraid that otherwise I would have a coronary or stroke. Send them to collections and be done with them.

JMO … Terry

J. Terry Frey DDS

623 N. State Street / P.O. Box 1008

North Vernon, IN 47265

Office (812) 346-6884

Cell (812) 592-4057


From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Ray Voller
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:46 PM
To: ACE
Subject: [ACEsthetics] VENTING!!

Just had a patient's husband (who have notoriously been collection problems over the years) call up and bitch up a storm about how his dentist doesn't ever charge for recementing crowns. His wife, who was a model patient of ours (meaning we used her in our ads) had a crown we placed in 2000 (12 years ago) come out and we charged her $120 to recement it yesterday. It had great retention and she had it come out Saturday, and we were in, but couldn't get her in until yesterday. It was no problem because it was difficult to even remove it to recement it. It was rebonded with no problem.


He complained that we didn't get her in 'fast enough' and the $120 we charged for the recement (after 12 years). WTF do people want?? He said his dentist NEVER charges anything for when his crowns 'fall out!' (WTF is THAT all about anyhow!?!)

Well, our collections person is CONSTANTLY calling her and they still owe us over $1000 for work that was done last year. We have been 'nice' not sending her to collections, but when he said he'd 'encourage her to go elsewhere,' I thought GOOD a..hole!
Man does this piss me off!!!

This just goes to show you, that when people owe you money, they basically don't like you!
FREAKIN NEXT!!!!!
Ray

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RE: [ACEsthetics] Trigger points

Why don't you have wireless and what do the trigger points fire off?

Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.
The Swamp
Douglas, GA 31533
912-384-7400



This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended
solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may
contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other
privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this
communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding,
printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any
attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the
confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply
email message and permanently delete the original message.


-----Original Message-----
From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Mac Lee
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:06 AM
To: ACE
Subject: [ACEsthetics] Trigger points


I am writing an article about my experience in taking Jay Gerber's TMD
course. Jay talks about lots of stuff, one of them being trigger points.
It just so happens that my kids are friends with a Olympic athlete who is
also a Massage Therapist. I had him work some trigger points on my back.
It was great.

I don't have wireless Internet service right now but I wanted to start this
thread because it is so exciting and puts a new light on treating TMD for
me. Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromuscular_therapy to
get the discussion going.


Mac

Sent from my iPad

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RE: [ACEsthetics] Here's my klong for yesterday.

The PAC 10 was only there because of the Southern girls who had moved to the West to go to college to try to be a movie star.

Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.

The Swamp

Douglas, GA 31533

912-384-7400

This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.

From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Jack P. Weiss
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:50 PM
To: gmoor@windstream.net
Cc: terryfrey@relax2smile.com; riccoker@gmail.com; Ace
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Here's my klong for yesterday.

When ABC was the only network to show college football (in the 60's and 70's), the ABC cameramen did a listing of the top football conferences as far as pretty women was concerned. They would always pan to the cheerleaders and fans throughout the game. The PAC10 was number one, and the SEC was second. I don't remember the rest. I think this was in the late 60's, early 70's when they did the poll of the cameramen.

Jack

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Guy Moorman <gmoor@windstream.net> wrote:

We have a huge abundance of beautiful women in the South.

Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.

The Swamp

Douglas, GA 31533

912-384-7400

This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.

From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Terry Frey, D.D.S.
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:36 PM
To: riccoker@gmail.com; Ace
Subject: RE: [ACEsthetics] Here's my klong for yesterday.

Why is it that you “southerners get all the really good looking women to work on? Must be something about eatin’ that down home cookin’. Terry

J. Terry Frey DDS

623 N. State Street / P.O. Box 1008

North Vernon, IN 47265

Office (812) 346-6884

Cell (812) 592-4057


From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Coker
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:15 PM
To: Ace
Subject: [ACEsthetics] Here's my klong for yesterday.

Mostly a no-prep case on a beautiful girl, but the one tooth I had prepped was acting sensitive and we numbed it. It was # 8 and was in a pretty buccal position, so I had to prep it back.

When I got the temp off, there was a slight puff of redness and it actually seemed to get bigger as the appointment progressed. We seated the veneer and didn't like it anyway- didn't seat just right. But it was just really weird. What happened?

I am already planning on remaking 8 and 9 and probably doing endo on #8 at the same time.

Rick

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Dr. Rick Coker, DDS, FACE
Director, Academy of Comprehensive Esthetics
www.tyler-smiles.com, www.tylersleep.com
http://www.google.com/profiles/riccoker.
903-581-1777

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