Dear All,
There is some serious mismatch.
Books in English medium schools around the same time taught that Alexander defeated Porus. Even a movie was made based on this theme. If we carry out proper survey of history books on all India basis we may get startling revelations!
Regards,
Satish Oberoi
From: Prabhakar Waghodekar <waghodekar@rediffmail.com>
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Cc: spagarwal@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, 1 July 2013, 4:21
Subject: Re: Re: [MTC Global] : FW: Alexander's failed invasion of India
Dear All,
I had my primary and Secondary education in Marathi medium. I surely remember in
the History book of India during 6th to 9th std. (we had SSC as std 11)during
1951-57 or so, my teacher taught me the same thing (as naratted by Martial)about
Alexander and Porus, Porus was not defeated and the Alexander's forces were taken
aback to see the power of a small state in India, frightened and opted for
mutiny. Alexander had to return. As I recollect the hand of a foreign princess
was given to an Indian Prince to have warm relations.
Indians still possess the same genes. The glaring example is: Hitler was stopped
by Indian troops and no other troops could deter him. Shivaji is a very glaring
example, the only one of its kind in world that Shivaji never faced a defeat
though he sometimes treated back just to win thereafter. Nepolean and Alexander
were defeated and Napoleon had a bad end. But we hardly read and realize our
great personalties, if somebody from west praises an Indian, then we wake up and
say we are proud of him/her, thank you! Our job is over!!
The masses have come to this pass because of the leadership, save a very few like
Lal, Bal and Pal, has been self-centered, who deep rooted in the minds of masses
such things as casteism, religious differences, master-slave relationship, power
by hereditory, no dignity for labor, higher and lower classification of man and
work, etc.
Most of our leaders are brought up/educated/trained in UK/US, placing them far
away from the soil of this land.
Regards.
Yours,
______________________________________________________
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 11:50:04 +0530 wrote
>
Dear Professor Oberoi:�Thank you for enlightening us.�Shall be obliged if you
could please let me know about the source of this information, e.g. name of the
book, publisher, etc.
�It shows that we Indians had some character then and did not surrender meekly.
Wonder how its stock has depleted and where it has vanished over the next 2000
years. I am sure we still have some left in our genes and can rise again in the
world but entirely for human good and not to show any power or position. I cannot
help recalling Mahatma Gandhi on this.
�Kind
regards.������������������������ï
¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ Satya Prakash Agarwal
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Satish Oberoi wrote:
It is strange that Indian historians never considered it fit to carry out prper
research and place historical facts in correct perspective, Or is it they had a
mandate to show Indian rulers in poor light.
The description of movement of Alexander after battle with Porus fits well in
actual movements of Alexander.
Satish---------- Forwarded message ----------
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
---
Marshal Zhukov on Alexander�s failed India invasion
May 27, 2013�Rakesh Krishnan Sinha
Alexander�s invasion of India is regarded as a huge Western victory against the
disorganised East. But according to Marshal Gregory Zhukov, the largely
Macedonian army suffered a fate worse than Napoleon in Russia.
Handing victory in India to Alexander is like describing Hitler as the conqueror
of Russia because the Germans advanced up to Stalingrad.
Source: wikipedia.org
�
In 326 BCE a formidable European army invaded India. Led by Alexander of Macedon
it comprised battle hardened Macedonian soldiers, Greek cavalry, Balkan fighters
and Persians allies. The total number of fighting men numbered more than 41,000.
Their most memorable clash was at the Battle of Hydaspes (Jhelum) against the
army of Porus, the ruler of the Paurava kingdom of western Punjab. For more than
25 centuries it was believed that Alexander�s forces defeated the Indians.
Greek and Roman accounts say the Indians were bested by the superior courage and
stature of the Macedonians.
Two millennia later, British historians latched on to the Alexander legend and
described the campaign as the triumph of the organised West against the chaotic
East. Although Alexander defeated only a few minor kingdoms in India�s
northwest, in the view of many gleeful colonial writers the conquest of India was
complete.
In reality much of the country was not even known to the Greeks. So handing
victory to Alexander is like describing Hitler as the conqueror of Russia because
the Germans advanced up to Stalingrad.
Zhukov�s view of Alexander
Statue of Alexander in Istanbul Archaeology Museum. Source: wikipedia.org
In 1957, while addressing the cadets of the Indian Military Academy, Dehra Dun,
Zhukov said Alexander�s actions after the Battle of Hydaspes suggest he had
suffered an outright defeat. In Zhukov�s view, Alexander had suffered a greater
setback in India than Napoleon in Russia. Napoleon had invaded Russia with
600,000 troops; of these only 30,000 survived, and of that number fewer than
1,000 were ever able to return to duty.
So if Zhukov was comparing Alexander�s campaign in India to Napoleon�s
disaster, the Macedonians and Greeks must have retreated in an equally
ignominious fashion. Zhukov would know a fleeing force if he saw one; he had
chased the German Army over 2000 km from Stalingrad to Berlin.
No easy victories
Alexander�s troubles began as soon as he crossed the Indian border. He first
faced resistance in the Kunar, Swat, Buner and Peshawar valleys where the
Aspasioi and Assakenoi, known in Hindu texts as Ashvayana and Ashvakayana,
stopped his advance. Although small by Indian standards they did not submit
before Alexander�s killing machine.
The Assakenoi offered stubborn resistance from their mountain strongholds of
Massaga, Bazira and Ora. The bloody fighting at Massaga was a prelude to what
awaited Alexander in India. On the first day after bitter fighting the
Macedonians and Greeks were forced to retreat with heavy losses. Alexander
himself was seriously wounded in the ankle. On the fourth day the king of Massaga
was killed but the city refused to surrender. The command of the army went to his
old mother, which brought the entire women of the area into the fighting.
Realising that his plans to storm India were going down at its very gates,
Alexander called for a truce. The Assakenoi agreed; the old queen was too
trusting. That night when the citizens of Massaga had gone off to sleep after
their celebrations, Alexander�s troops entered the city and massacred the
entire citizenry. A similar slaughter then followed at Ora.
However, the fierce resistance put up by the Indian defenders had reduced the
strength and perhaps the confidence of the until then all-conquering Macedonian
army.
Faceoff at the river
In his entire conquering career Alexander�s hardest encounter was the Battle of
Hydaspes, in which he faced king Porus of Paurava, a small but prosperous Indian
kingdom on the river Jhelum. Porus is described in Greek accounts as standing
seven feet tall.
In May 326 BCE, the European and Paurava armies faced each other across the banks
of the Jhelum. By all accounts it was an awe-inspiring spectacle. The 34,000
Macedonian infantry and 7000 Greek cavalry were bolstered by the Indian king
Ambhi, who was Porus�s rival. Ambhi was the ruler of the neighbouring kingdom
of Taxila and had offered to help Alexander on condition he would be given
Porus�s kingdom.
Alexander meets Porus. Source: wikipedia.org
Facing this tumultuous force led by the genius of Alexander was the Paurava army
of 20,000 infantry, 2000 cavalry and 200 war elephants. Being a comparatively
small kingdom by Indian standards, Paurava couldn�t have maintained such a
large standing army, so it�s likely many of its defenders were hastily armed
civilians. Also, the Greeks habitually exaggerated enemy strength.
According to Greek sources, for several days the armies eyeballed each other
across the river. The Greek-Macedonian force after having lost several thousand
soldiers fighting the Indian mountain cities, were terrified at the prospect of
fighting the fierce Paurava army. They had heard about the havoc Indian war
elephants created among enemy ranks. The modern equivalent of battle tanks, the
elephants also scared the wits out of the horses in the Greek cavalry.
Another terrible weapon in the Indians' armoury was the two-meter bow. As tall as
a man it could launch massive arrows able to transfix more than one enemy
soldier.
Indians strike
The battle was savagely fought. As the volleys of heavy arrows from the long
Indian bows scythed into the enemy�s formations, the first wave of war
elephants waded into the Macedonian phalanx that was bristling with 17-feet long
sarissas. Some of the animals got impaled in the process. Then a second wave of
these mighty beasts rushed into the gap created by the first, either trampling
the Macedonian soldiers or grabbing themwith their trunks and presenting them up
for the mounted Indian soldiers to cut or spear them. It was a nightmarish
scenario for the invaders. As the terrified Macedonians pushed back, the Indian
infantry charged into the gap.
In the first charge, by the Indians, Porus�s brother Amar killed Alexander�s
favourite horse Bucephalus, forcing Alexander to dismount. This was a big deal.
In battles outside India the elite Macedonian bodyguards had not allowed a single
enemy soldier to deliver so much as a scratch on their king's body, let alone
slay his mount. Yet in this battle Indian troops not only broke into
Alexander�s inner cordon, they also killed Nicaea, one of his leading
commanders.
According to the Roman historian Marcus Justinus, Porus challenged Alexander, who
charged him on horseback. In the ensuing duel, Alexander fell off his horse and
was at the mercy of the Indian king�s spear. But Porus dithered for a second
and Alexander�s bodyguards rushed in to save their king.
Plutarch, the Greek historian and biographer, says there seems to have been
nothing wrong with Indian morale. Despite initial setbacks, when their vaunted
chariots got stuck in the mud, Porus�s army �rallied and kept resisting the
Macedonians with unsurpassable bravery�.
Macedonians: Shaken, not stirred
Although the Greeks claim victory, the fanatical resistance put up by the Indian
soldiers and ordinary people everywhere had shaken the nerves of Alexander's army
to the core. They refused to move further east. Nothing Alexander could say or do
would spur his men to continue eastward. The army was close to mutiny.
The Greek historian says after the battle with the Pauravas, the badly bruised
and rattled Macedonians panicked when they received information further from
Punjab lay places �where the inhabitants were skilled in agriculture, where
there were elephants in yet greater abundance and men were superior in stature
and courage�.Says Plutarch: �The combat with Porus took the edge off the
Macedonians� courage, and stayed their further progress into India. For having
found it hard enough to defeat an enemy who brought but 20,000 foot and 2000
horse into the field, they thought they had reason to oppose Alexander's design
of leading them on to pass the Ganges, on the further side of which was covered
with multitudes of enemies.�
Indeed, on the other side of the Ganges was the mighty kingdom of Magadh, ruled
by the wily Nandas, who commanded one of the most powerful and largest standing
armies in the world. According to Plutarch, the courage of the Macedonians
evaporated when they came to know the Nandas �were awaiting them with 200,000
infantry, 80,000 cavalry, 8000 war chariots and 6000 fighting elephants�.
Undoubtedly, Alexander�s army would have walked into a slaughterhouse.
Hundreds of kilometres from the Indian heartland, Alexander ordered a retreat to
great jubilation among his soldiers.
Partisans counterattack
The celebrations were premature. On its way south towards the sea, Alexander's
army was constantly harried by Indian partisans, republics and kingdoms.
In a campaign at Sangala in Punjab, the Indian attack was so ferocious it
completely destroyed the Greek cavalry, forcing Alexander to attack on foot. In
the next battle, against the Malavs of Multan, he was felled by an Indian warrior
whose arrow pierced the Macedonian�s breastplate and ribs.
Says Military History magazine: �Although there was more fighting,
Alexander�s wound put an end to any more personal exploits. Lung tissue never
fully recovers, and the thick scarring in its place made every breath cut like a
knife.�
Alexander never recovered and died in Babylon (modern Iraq) at the age of 33.
--
Ranjit Grewal
��
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Regards,
Dr P H Waghodekar
Advisor (HR), IBS & PME (PG)
Marathwada Institute of Technology,
Aurangabad: 431028 (Maharashtra) INDIA.
(O) 02402375113 (M) 7276661925
E-Mail: waghodekar@rediffmail.com
Website: www.mit.asia
Engineering & Management Education: An Engine of Prosperity.
Classroom teaching must match with Boardroom needs!
MTC GLOBAL- Educate, Empower, Elevate
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Management Teachers Consortium, Global" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to join_mtc+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
I had my primary and Secondary education in Marathi medium. I surely remember in
the History book of India during 6th to 9th std. (we had SSC as std 11)during
1951-57 or so, my teacher taught me the same thing (as naratted by Martial)about
Alexander and Porus, Porus was not defeated and the Alexander's forces were taken
aback to see the power of a small state in India, frightened and opted for
mutiny. Alexander had to return. As I recollect the hand of a foreign princess
was given to an Indian Prince to have warm relations.
Indians still possess the same genes. The glaring example is: Hitler was stopped
by Indian troops and no other troops could deter him. Shivaji is a very glaring
example, the only one of its kind in world that Shivaji never faced a defeat
though he sometimes treated back just to win thereafter. Nepolean and Alexander
were defeated and Napoleon had a bad end. But we hardly read and realize our
great personalties, if somebody from west praises an Indian, then we wake up and
say we are proud of him/her, thank you! Our job is over!!
The masses have come to this pass because of the leadership, save a very few like
Lal, Bal and Pal, has been self-centered, who deep rooted in the minds of masses
such things as casteism, religious differences, master-slave relationship, power
by hereditory, no dignity for labor, higher and lower classification of man and
work, etc.
Most of our leaders are brought up/educated/trained in UK/US, placing them far
away from the soil of this land.
Regards.
Yours,
______________________________________________________
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 11:50:04 +0530 wrote
>
Dear Professor Oberoi:�Thank you for enlightening us.�Shall be obliged if you
could please let me know about the source of this information, e.g. name of the
book, publisher, etc.
�It shows that we Indians had some character then and did not surrender meekly.
Wonder how its stock has depleted and where it has vanished over the next 2000
years. I am sure we still have some left in our genes and can rise again in the
world but entirely for human good and not to show any power or position. I cannot
help recalling Mahatma Gandhi on this.
�Kind
regards.������������������������ï
¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ Satya Prakash Agarwal
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Satish Oberoi wrote:
It is strange that Indian historians never considered it fit to carry out prper
research and place historical facts in correct perspective, Or is it they had a
mandate to show Indian rulers in poor light.
The description of movement of Alexander after battle with Porus fits well in
actual movements of Alexander.
Satish---------- Forwarded message ----------
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
�
---
Marshal Zhukov on Alexander�s failed India invasion
May 27, 2013�Rakesh Krishnan Sinha
Alexander�s invasion of India is regarded as a huge Western victory against the
disorganised East. But according to Marshal Gregory Zhukov, the largely
Macedonian army suffered a fate worse than Napoleon in Russia.
Handing victory in India to Alexander is like describing Hitler as the conqueror
of Russia because the Germans advanced up to Stalingrad.
Source: wikipedia.org
�
In 326 BCE a formidable European army invaded India. Led by Alexander of Macedon
it comprised battle hardened Macedonian soldiers, Greek cavalry, Balkan fighters
and Persians allies. The total number of fighting men numbered more than 41,000.
Their most memorable clash was at the Battle of Hydaspes (Jhelum) against the
army of Porus, the ruler of the Paurava kingdom of western Punjab. For more than
25 centuries it was believed that Alexander�s forces defeated the Indians.
Greek and Roman accounts say the Indians were bested by the superior courage and
stature of the Macedonians.
Two millennia later, British historians latched on to the Alexander legend and
described the campaign as the triumph of the organised West against the chaotic
East. Although Alexander defeated only a few minor kingdoms in India�s
northwest, in the view of many gleeful colonial writers the conquest of India was
complete.
In reality much of the country was not even known to the Greeks. So handing
victory to Alexander is like describing Hitler as the conqueror of Russia because
the Germans advanced up to Stalingrad.
Zhukov�s view of Alexander
Statue of Alexander in Istanbul Archaeology Museum. Source: wikipedia.org
In 1957, while addressing the cadets of the Indian Military Academy, Dehra Dun,
Zhukov said Alexander�s actions after the Battle of Hydaspes suggest he had
suffered an outright defeat. In Zhukov�s view, Alexander had suffered a greater
setback in India than Napoleon in Russia. Napoleon had invaded Russia with
600,000 troops; of these only 30,000 survived, and of that number fewer than
1,000 were ever able to return to duty.
So if Zhukov was comparing Alexander�s campaign in India to Napoleon�s
disaster, the Macedonians and Greeks must have retreated in an equally
ignominious fashion. Zhukov would know a fleeing force if he saw one; he had
chased the German Army over 2000 km from Stalingrad to Berlin.
No easy victories
Alexander�s troubles began as soon as he crossed the Indian border. He first
faced resistance in the Kunar, Swat, Buner and Peshawar valleys where the
Aspasioi and Assakenoi, known in Hindu texts as Ashvayana and Ashvakayana,
stopped his advance. Although small by Indian standards they did not submit
before Alexander�s killing machine.
The Assakenoi offered stubborn resistance from their mountain strongholds of
Massaga, Bazira and Ora. The bloody fighting at Massaga was a prelude to what
awaited Alexander in India. On the first day after bitter fighting the
Macedonians and Greeks were forced to retreat with heavy losses. Alexander
himself was seriously wounded in the ankle. On the fourth day the king of Massaga
was killed but the city refused to surrender. The command of the army went to his
old mother, which brought the entire women of the area into the fighting.
Realising that his plans to storm India were going down at its very gates,
Alexander called for a truce. The Assakenoi agreed; the old queen was too
trusting. That night when the citizens of Massaga had gone off to sleep after
their celebrations, Alexander�s troops entered the city and massacred the
entire citizenry. A similar slaughter then followed at Ora.
However, the fierce resistance put up by the Indian defenders had reduced the
strength and perhaps the confidence of the until then all-conquering Macedonian
army.
Faceoff at the river
In his entire conquering career Alexander�s hardest encounter was the Battle of
Hydaspes, in which he faced king Porus of Paurava, a small but prosperous Indian
kingdom on the river Jhelum. Porus is described in Greek accounts as standing
seven feet tall.
In May 326 BCE, the European and Paurava armies faced each other across the banks
of the Jhelum. By all accounts it was an awe-inspiring spectacle. The 34,000
Macedonian infantry and 7000 Greek cavalry were bolstered by the Indian king
Ambhi, who was Porus�s rival. Ambhi was the ruler of the neighbouring kingdom
of Taxila and had offered to help Alexander on condition he would be given
Porus�s kingdom.
Alexander meets Porus. Source: wikipedia.org
Facing this tumultuous force led by the genius of Alexander was the Paurava army
of 20,000 infantry, 2000 cavalry and 200 war elephants. Being a comparatively
small kingdom by Indian standards, Paurava couldn�t have maintained such a
large standing army, so it�s likely many of its defenders were hastily armed
civilians. Also, the Greeks habitually exaggerated enemy strength.
According to Greek sources, for several days the armies eyeballed each other
across the river. The Greek-Macedonian force after having lost several thousand
soldiers fighting the Indian mountain cities, were terrified at the prospect of
fighting the fierce Paurava army. They had heard about the havoc Indian war
elephants created among enemy ranks. The modern equivalent of battle tanks, the
elephants also scared the wits out of the horses in the Greek cavalry.
Another terrible weapon in the Indians' armoury was the two-meter bow. As tall as
a man it could launch massive arrows able to transfix more than one enemy
soldier.
Indians strike
The battle was savagely fought. As the volleys of heavy arrows from the long
Indian bows scythed into the enemy�s formations, the first wave of war
elephants waded into the Macedonian phalanx that was bristling with 17-feet long
sarissas. Some of the animals got impaled in the process. Then a second wave of
these mighty beasts rushed into the gap created by the first, either trampling
the Macedonian soldiers or grabbing themwith their trunks and presenting them up
for the mounted Indian soldiers to cut or spear them. It was a nightmarish
scenario for the invaders. As the terrified Macedonians pushed back, the Indian
infantry charged into the gap.
In the first charge, by the Indians, Porus�s brother Amar killed Alexander�s
favourite horse Bucephalus, forcing Alexander to dismount. This was a big deal.
In battles outside India the elite Macedonian bodyguards had not allowed a single
enemy soldier to deliver so much as a scratch on their king's body, let alone
slay his mount. Yet in this battle Indian troops not only broke into
Alexander�s inner cordon, they also killed Nicaea, one of his leading
commanders.
According to the Roman historian Marcus Justinus, Porus challenged Alexander, who
charged him on horseback. In the ensuing duel, Alexander fell off his horse and
was at the mercy of the Indian king�s spear. But Porus dithered for a second
and Alexander�s bodyguards rushed in to save their king.
Plutarch, the Greek historian and biographer, says there seems to have been
nothing wrong with Indian morale. Despite initial setbacks, when their vaunted
chariots got stuck in the mud, Porus�s army �rallied and kept resisting the
Macedonians with unsurpassable bravery�.
Macedonians: Shaken, not stirred
Although the Greeks claim victory, the fanatical resistance put up by the Indian
soldiers and ordinary people everywhere had shaken the nerves of Alexander's army
to the core. They refused to move further east. Nothing Alexander could say or do
would spur his men to continue eastward. The army was close to mutiny.
The Greek historian says after the battle with the Pauravas, the badly bruised
and rattled Macedonians panicked when they received information further from
Punjab lay places �where the inhabitants were skilled in agriculture, where
there were elephants in yet greater abundance and men were superior in stature
and courage�.Says Plutarch: �The combat with Porus took the edge off the
Macedonians� courage, and stayed their further progress into India. For having
found it hard enough to defeat an enemy who brought but 20,000 foot and 2000
horse into the field, they thought they had reason to oppose Alexander's design
of leading them on to pass the Ganges, on the further side of which was covered
with multitudes of enemies.�
Indeed, on the other side of the Ganges was the mighty kingdom of Magadh, ruled
by the wily Nandas, who commanded one of the most powerful and largest standing
armies in the world. According to Plutarch, the courage of the Macedonians
evaporated when they came to know the Nandas �were awaiting them with 200,000
infantry, 80,000 cavalry, 8000 war chariots and 6000 fighting elephants�.
Undoubtedly, Alexander�s army would have walked into a slaughterhouse.
Hundreds of kilometres from the Indian heartland, Alexander ordered a retreat to
great jubilation among his soldiers.
Partisans counterattack
The celebrations were premature. On its way south towards the sea, Alexander's
army was constantly harried by Indian partisans, republics and kingdoms.
In a campaign at Sangala in Punjab, the Indian attack was so ferocious it
completely destroyed the Greek cavalry, forcing Alexander to attack on foot. In
the next battle, against the Malavs of Multan, he was felled by an Indian warrior
whose arrow pierced the Macedonian�s breastplate and ribs.
Says Military History magazine: �Although there was more fighting,
Alexander�s wound put an end to any more personal exploits. Lung tissue never
fully recovers, and the thick scarring in its place made every breath cut like a
knife.�
Alexander never recovered and died in Babylon (modern Iraq) at the age of 33.
--
Ranjit Grewal
��
--
MTC GLOBAL- Educate, Empower, Elevate
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to join_mtc+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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>
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>
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>
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>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to join_mtc+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>
Regards,
Dr P H Waghodekar
Advisor (HR), IBS & PME (PG)
Marathwada Institute of Technology,
Aurangabad: 431028 (Maharashtra) INDIA.
(O) 02402375113 (M) 7276661925
E-Mail: waghodekar@rediffmail.com
Website: www.mit.asia
Engineering & Management Education: An Engine of Prosperity.
Classroom teaching must match with Boardroom needs!
Get your own FREE website and domain with business email solutions, click here
-- MTC GLOBAL- Educate, Empower, Elevate
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