College & Education: December 2013

Tuesday, December 31, 2013

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RE: [camasej] Re: [cameroons_sdf_party] Re: [cameroonianjournalists] Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

an intellectual francophone knows very little about southern cameroons! Surprising? not at all! their education is to spend time learning about france. Tagne may not be able to effectively discuss bamoun history with anyone, let alone that of southern Cameroons

.

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 19:57:32 -0800
From: mbatu4@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [camasej] Re: [cameroons_sdf_party] Re: [cameroonianjournalists] Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com; camasej@yahoogroups.com
CC: cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com; cameroonianjournalists@yahoogroups.com; FREE_Ambazonians@yahoogroups.com; cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com; WFHoustonCommittee@yahoogroups.com; wfn-networking@lists.riseup.net; southerncameroons@yahoogroups.com; scapo_ldn@yahoo.com; scyldiscus@yahoogroups.com; ambasbay@googlegroups.com

Dear Mr. Tagne:

I read, with great interest, your write-up on "My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons." I will not sit back and let misinformation go around uncorrected. In the write-up, you stated, and I quote:

"I never recognized any "southern Cameroon" because none exist but the Cameroons made up of one under French Administration (from Yaounde to Dla, Nkongsamba my beautiful native town, Bafoussam etc) and the other under British Administration made up of Kumba, Buea, Limbe, Bamenda etc By the way I got this from your UN document.o yes "SC" is non existence as MsJoe rightly put it."

I will attempt to respectfully explain some pertinent issues (emanating from your statement) that pertains to the Southern Cameroons in very simple and straight forward terms.

1. Two English speaking Cameroons existed when the wind of change was blowing across the continent of Africa in the late 1950s - the Northern Cameroons and Southern Cameroons.

2. Northern Cameroons voted in a UN supervised plebiscite to gain her independence by joining Nigeria, while the Southern Cameroons voted to ATTAIN INDEPENDENCE by joining French Cameroon - independence that the Southern Cameroons has never enjoyed!!!

3. The Southern Cameroons was represented by elected officials/representatives in the Nigerian Eastern House of Assembly in Enugu. Some of the democratically elected members include Dr. Foncha, Mr. J. T Ndze, Rev. Kangsen, etc. Chief Mukete and Mr, S. T. Muna were Federal Ministers in the Federal Republic of Nigerian Government. Dr. Endeley was in Medical School in Lagos Nigeria at that time.

4. In order to enjoy their well deserved autonomy, the elected officials staged a walked out of the Eastern House of Assembly in what was historically known as "declaring benevolent neutrality" in the early part of 1954.

5. The Richardson Constitution of London granted autonomy to Southern Cameroons (in the later part of 1954), following the walk-out from the Eastern House of Assembly by the Southern Cameroons delegation. This autonomy enabled the Southern Cameroons to form a democratically elected government (with a Prime Minister and members of Government (Ministers or Secretaries of state).

6. All branches of Government and different Ministries were in operation in the Southern Cameroons. (Note that at this time, marquizards were harassing and ransacking the French Cameroons territory, forcing some French Camerounians to flee and seek refuge in the Southern Cameroons territory where they were well received by Southern Cameroonians.

7. The Southern Cameroons Government was headed by a Prime Minister and Head of Government. A House of Assembly and a House of Chiefs were fully operational to streamline the laws in the state of the Southern Cameroons. The Southern Cameroons Government Public Service Commission ensured equal opportunity employment in government ministries and departments throughout the state of the Southern Cameroons.

8. The people of Southern Cameroons voted massively to join French Cameroun with the understanding that she would attain independence. Instead of gaining independence, brutal gendarmes and police were engaged to harass the peace-loving English speaking people of the Southern Cameroons through 'cale-cale' and other primitive and brutal means.

9. After the plebiscite, a Constitutional Conference was summoned in Foumban to streamline the Federal Status of the Federal Republic of Cameroun. This conference yielded NO RESULTS perhaps because the French advisors of Ahidjo were scared of the 'equal status' accorded to both federated states in a federal constitution, and feared that English norms and values would be preferred to French autocratic and archaic rule. The results of the Foumban Conference would have been the authentic document finalizing the unification of the two Cameroons. As you know, there is no document indicating that the Southern Cameroons has been united with the French Cameroons since 1961. Therefore the occupation of Southern Cameroons territory is illegal.

10. Since the annexation of the State of Southern Cameroons by La Republique du Cameroun, the Southern Cameroons territory and people have been grossly marginalized and neglected. Travel from Kumba to Mamfe to appreciate the degree of the neglect. French speaking administrators are imposed on English speaking people of the Southern Cameroons.

11.The Southern Cameroons was one country until the policy of 'divide and rule' was put in place by Yaoundé to instigate the people of the Northwest and Southwest to knock their heads together for the benefit of the neo-colonialists in Yaounde. Fortunately, only a few Southern Cameroonians have fallen prey to this diabolical ploy and ignorantly regard either the Northwest or the Southwest people as their enemies, as their oil and other natural resources are being drained to enrich the coffers of French Cameroon treasury in Yaounde. Fortunately, the two provinces have more in common that unites them than what is supposed to tear them apart.

So Mr. Tagne, from the eleven (11) points raised above, you can see that, really there is a Southern Cameroons (spelled with a capital S). For your information, there are very many other justifications in support of the demands of people seeking complete emancipation from the pangs of neglect, fraud, cleptocracy, and gross marginalization. I may share them with you if you raise questions that I can provide answers for you.

Finally, instead of being insolent and insulting others, let us seize the opportunity to learn the historical evolution of the Southern Cameroons (or any country) before making public definitive statements. I sincerely wish you God's blessings for the New Year (2014). We hope that the genuine wishes of the people of the Southern Cameroons/Ambazonia will be hearkened to by the appropriate authorities before it is too late!!!

Sincerely,

Dr. Atang.

From: Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com>
To: "camasej@yahoogroups.com" <camasej@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com" <cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroonianjournalists@yahoogroups.com" <cameroonianjournalists@yahoogroups.com>; "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "camasej@yahoogroups.com" <camasej@yahoogroups.com>; Free Cam Ambazonians <FREE_Ambazonians@yahoogroups.com>; Cameroon Politics <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [camasej] Re: [cameroons_sdf_party] Re: [cameroonianjournalists] Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Do not be happy with the "landing page" of the website I sent you. To read a book, you have to read more than the cover. Please, read on. There are no traps. Just scholarship for all of us.

Even if the SC was a non-existing polity as Eritrea and South Sudan once were, what evil could it do the people of such a polity to have self-rule?

The evil of Apartheid was worse than Biya's dictatorship. If Mandela built the Rainbow South Africa with De Klerk, I am all for building a future Cameroon with President Biya and his supporters. We can show them that we are better than their savagery and that is not done by being worse than them.

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:14 PM, Jean-Bosco Tagne <jtagne@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hummmm Grand frère Boh Herbert,

As one of my good friend "Ekembath" from Limbe I believe said ones "ca c'est la piege". I never recognized any "southern Cameroon" because none exist but the Cameroons made up of one under French Administration (from Yaounde to Dla, Nkongsamba my beautiful native town, Bafoussam etc) and the other under British Administration made up of Kumba, Buea, Limbe, Bamenda etc By the way I got this from your UN document.o yes "SC" is non existence as MsJoe rightly put it.

As for De Klerk in SA, he was ready to negotiate and talk about the future of his country con tray to biya who would like to see Cameroon turn into another Rwanda and/or Congo if not Central African Republic where we have to send planes to repatriate our fellow brothers and sisters. So yes I would like to see a type Jerry and Prince helping to take care of his behind without any hesitation particularly after the EVIL man killed many of my friends.

A man who can not allow even the remains of his "illustre predecessor" to return home and you are trying to tell us how we SHOULD treat him? Even dogs will refuse to eat his remains trust me...

Tagne

On Monday, December 30, 2013 9:58 PM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Jean Bosco,

On my score board, you are so far doing better than Ms Joe.

First, you recognize that any people (including Southern Cameroonians, I would like to presume) are better off with self-rule.

Second, you acknowledge a part of the historical fact that is Southern Cameroons even if you mistake the actual name. At least, you do not claim, like Ms Joe does, that SC is a non-existing polity.

Third, you would like my support in putting an end to dictatorship in Cameroon and reclaiming Northern Cameroons as Bakassi.

I am delighted that Jean Bosco is on record as being supportive of self-rule for all peoples. We are on the same side on that point. Fighting dictatorship consists of preventing the dictator from overruling the people. A lot more unites us than we think. We differ in the order of prioritization.

Because you mentioned them, I'd like to be on record:

I am no fan of the barbaric approach adopted by Jerry Rawlings to deal with the dictators before him, including not agreeing with taking up arms to seize power or executing political opponents.

I also do not agree with Liberia's Prince Johnson and his barbaric ways of settling political scores with Samuel Doe. There should be a place for President Paul Biya in the new Cameroon, much like there was one for De Klerk in South Africa.

The people most opposed to self-rule for Cameroonians and the people who are most supportive of the Biya dictatorship's denial or sabotage of self-government are Cameroonians themselves, and many of them are on this forum.

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Jean-Bosco Tagne <jtagne@yahoo.com> wrote:

Grand frère Boh Herbert,

Let me first answer your question by saying clearly that every people or group are better off when self-rule if self-rule according to you is taking care of their daily problems and I gave you earlier the case of Colorado compare to your Virginia in this same US of A.

Thanks so much for the link. It is even more instructif as again I found no where your "SC". The UN clearly said and here is the quote from the site:
"Cameroons (under French administration) Became independent as Cameroon in 1960
Cameroons (under British administration) Northern territory joined Nigeria and Southern territory joined Cameroon (1961)"
So are you going to join Cameroonians so that we can all fight to get back the other part of our Northern territory that joined Nigeria? We were able to get back Bakassi and need to get our brothers and sisters from the northern part of the Cameroons "under British administration" back.

Brother help here...Am I reading it wrong or it is still your so call "successes of dictatorship" turning me blind? I also know that the southern part of Cameroon is made up of the S and SW regions with the capitals name Ebolowa and Buea that I believe should be self-rule for the benefit of their population same as our NWR-WR-ER-LR etc with elected Mayors, governors and local leaders. So like the US and other modern country Cameroon still need is own leader but not EVIL of the type of biya paul and the sycophants working for him. We need a Jerry Rawlings in Cameroon. We need a Prince Johnson who can take care of him...

What say you?

Tagne

On Monday, December 30, 2013 8:46 PM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Jean Bosco,

To say that you know of West Cameroon but know nothing about the U.N. Trust Territory of Southern Cameroons is like claiming that President Ahidjo never existed because he existed before his successor. This is how the dictatorship wants. Cameroonians are to know little-to-nothing about their history, and boy-oh-boy, has the dictatorship been successful !

You can read up more about SC by visiting the weblink of the United Nations below.

http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/selfdet.shtml

But, that approach - of discussing the SC when the topic is self-rule - still takes us off topic.

If you prefer just tell this forum if you are for or against self-rule for the French-speaking part of Cameroon. If you are opposed, kindly let us know why self-government is a bad thing.

I'm ready to be converted and won over by your argument but you have to make one. I will be waiting.

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Jean-Bosco Tagne <jtagne@yahoo.com> wrote:

Grand frère Cameroonian Brother Boh Herbert,

What is really "southern Cameroon"? You are making all of us more confused now.
We know nothing about "SC" but a lot about "Western Cameroon". Can you educate us please may be that is why we have been behaving like dogs watching TV. How do you want a non existing state and/or country to self-rule? Self-rule what or who? The "SC" of Ntemfac Ofege and Larry Eyong Ebenezer with Washington-DC removal of presidential term limit of their candidate "a la biya paul"?

Massa let us focus on getting this dictator out ASAP and save Cameroonians from 31+ years of EVIL. Hope we are all on board now and I can count on you for sure. You are a great journalist my friend. There is no doubt about that till you start talking about "SC" something that never existed anywhere and people like me are starting to worry...about...

Tagne

On Monday, December 30, 2013 6:51 PM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:

My views on Southern Cameroons are known.

This challenge invites entries from those who oppose self-rule for Southern Cameroons or who believe it is bad for Cameroon. It is not about me or my views. Ignore me. Let us hear the arguments of those against self-rule for Southern Cameroons.

I could have asked: are you for or against democracy? When people start saying it depends, I wonder what they mean by "it depends".

This is a simple challenge: is self-rule desired? If you support it, you need not make the case. If, on the other hand, you are opposed to self-rule for Southern Cameroons, we want to hear from you on why it is bad.

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 6:31 PM, James Ashu <jamesashu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello MsJoe,

Thank you for your response to Broda Boh. I thought I was the only person who does not see clarity in an important challenge like this one.

JTA

From: "MsJoe21St@aol.com" <MsJoe21St@aol.com>
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Hello Ni Herbert:

Happy Seasonal Tidings and a Prosperous New Year.

In deed, the question in your 2014 Challenge warrants clarity given your responses to the responders so far:

For example, when you ask Jean Bosco whether he likes the system in the USA where people self govern, do you mean Southern Cameroons is opting for a federated system? If so, a potential Southern Cameroons (assuming free thinking people in NW and SW Regions want to give up their respective identities) will still be under the central (federal) government of Cameroon. That's how the US federal system works.  In this case, someone may ask, why not 10 federated Regions?

You ask whether self rule is bad. It is quite good. It conjures the equivalent of whether fresh bread and all those good things of life and living are bad. But left to be explained are vital points like: the means and consequences of obtaining things desired, and the alternatives in order for people to give informed opinion or consent.

For example, if the devil in the details suggests that  ethnic unrests, meaningless schism based on colo-language, civil wars, etc. are likely processes, you may get different answers from the one you may get by simply asking people whether self rule , it and of itself, is bad.

So Ni Herbert, you have to enlighten the people on how self rule shall happen. Context matters.

God Bless,

MsJoe

In a message dated 12/30/2013 3:11:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jamesashu@yahoo.com writes:

Hello Mr. Boh,

I wish you and your family a Happy New year. Your 2014 challenge on Southern Cameroon lacks clarity. It may be interpreted to mean many things to many people. What do you really mean by self-rule for Southern Cameroon? Does self-rule mean independence for Southern Cameroons as a separate country? Does it mean self-rule like the states in a federal structure like the United Sates of America, but in the Republic of Cameroon? Does it mean a confederation with the Republic of Cameroon? In fact there are very many more permutations to this challenge. This matter is too important to be defined in vague terms. Please, be more specific. I hope you understand my confusion.

JTA

From: Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com>
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Cameroon Network <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; Cameroon Politics <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; Free Cam Ambazonians <FREE_Ambazonians@yahoogroups.com>; Cameroon SDF <cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Dear Jean Bosco,

I don't want to mistaken about your view, but can you clarify that you like the system of the USA where people self-govern? If you do, why is that bad for Cameroon?

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 2:25 PM, jtagne <jtagne@yahoo.com> wrote:

Massa Agbor

More and more interesting. ..Please let him know that again about our unified Cameroon. ..

Tell him that in his USA Denver for instance people self govern reason why they can grow and sell their green while in Virginia they can't for now all this in the same country call America.

Hahaha I may join your party with my good friend Sam Esale former what so ever of this evil regime of biya paul call cpdm. ..

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Agbor Enow Augustine <Enow007@yahoo.com> Date: 12/30/2013 11:22 (GMT-05:00) To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com,cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com Cc: FREE_Ambazonians@yahoogroups.com,Cameroon SDF <cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Can you tell this forum why self-rule is bad for Southern Cameroons? I get the argument that other Cameroonians are not better off, but how does that make self-government bad for Southern Cameroonians? How, in the absence of self-rule, is the current situation different from colonization? (Boh Herbert)

            The so called Southern Cameroons can not talk of self-rule, because it lacks the legitimacy and sovereignty to do so; and would be secessionist movements like the SCNC lacks the mandate from the very people they claim their subversive activities shall benefit. The coalition of the discontent few, who have constituted themselves into would be secessionist movements without followers are anti-nationalist. Their actions do not reduce the capacity of junta Paul Biya's regime to plunder state resources, but in effect sustain the regime by pitting Cameroonians against one another, strengthening the divide-and-rule tactics of the dictator. This distracts attention from the actual problems faced by the people in their daily lives.

            Former Southern Cameroon has genuine expressions of cultural, economic, and social grievances: Poverty and inequality of opportunities, a situation that affects 100 percent of the country, including the Littoral and Central provinces is one of them. Another is the attempt to make Cameroon a French speaking country, which I have said before will never work.

            Yes, it is true that the government of junta Biya has deliberately ignored legitimate grievances from minority groups, but who wants to listen to such grievances if the under 500 people behind the so called Anglophone movements propagate callous secessionist claims.

            We are finalizing the manifesto for the newly constituted Cameroon Peoples Nationalist Alliance and Mr. Boh Herbert will read more about this question. But the Republic of Cameroon remains a unified nation or cultural community with a shared history, languages, religions arts and music etc. The question of whether Southern Cameroons can govern itself is a distraction, because Southern Cameroon died in 1961.

Augustine Agbor Enow

Founder and Convener

Cameroon Peoples Nationalist Alliance (CPNA)

The outcome of my life is not more than three lines: I was a raw material I became mature and cooked And I was burned into nothingness. Rumi

On Monday, December 30, 2013 7:55 AM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Happy New Year 2014 to all!!! For years, advocates of self-rule and the restoration of Southern Cameroons have argued the merits of the case they make while opponents have generally said "No", "No Way", "No How". This is my 2014 Challenge for those opposed to self-rule (not decentralization) for any people (in this case, Southern Cameroonians): Can you tell this forum why self-rule is bad for Southern Cameroons? I get the argument that other Cameroonians are not better off, but how does that make self-government bad for Southern Cameroonians? How, in the absence of self-rule, is the current situation different from colonization? Please don't recycle the "Balkanization" argument because Africa was never ONE to start with. Secondly, various countries across the continent did not say "No" to independence (another word for self-government) claiming that African unity will be harmed by piecemeal independence. Opponents of self-rule, please take advantage of this challenge in 2014 and let us gear YOUR CASE. Who knows? You just may convince millions of us with your arguments. I will be waiting. Happy New Year 2014 !!! Boh Herbert Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [camasej] Re: [cameroons_sdf_party] Re: [cameroonianjournalists] Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Dear Mr. Tagne:

I read, with great interest, your write-up on "My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons." I will not sit back and let misinformation go around uncorrected. In the write-up, you stated, and I quote:

I will attempt to respectfully explain some pertinent issues (emanating from your statement) that pertains to the Southern Cameroons in very simple and straight forward terms.

1. Two English speaking Cameroons existed when the wind of change was blowing across the continent of Africa in the late 1950s - the Northern Cameroons and Southern Cameroons.

Sincerely,

Dr. Atang.

From: Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com>
To: "camasej@yahoogroups.com" <camasej@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com" <cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroonianjournalists@yahoogroups.com" <cameroonianjournalists@yahoogroups.com>; "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "camasej@yahoogroups.com" <camasej@yahoogroups.com>; Free Cam Ambazonians <FREE_Ambazonians@yahoogroups.com>; Cameroon Politics <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [camasej] Re: [cameroons_sdf_party] Re: [cameroonianjournalists] Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Do not be happy with the "landing page" of the website I sent you. To read a book, you have to read more than the cover. Please, read on. There are no traps. Just scholarship for all of us.

Even if the SC was a non-existing polity as Eritrea and South Sudan once were, what evil could it do the people of such a polity to have self-rule?

The evil of Apartheid was worse than Biya's dictatorship. If Mandela built the Rainbow South Africa with De Klerk, I am all for building a future Cameroon with President Biya and his supporters. We can show them that we are better than their savagery and that is not done by being worse than them.

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:14 PM, Jean-Bosco Tagne <jtagne@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hummmm Grand frère Boh Herbert,

As one of my good friend "Ekembath" from Limbe I believe said ones "ca c'est la piege". I never recognized any "southern Cameroon" because none exist but the Cameroons made up of one under French Administration (from Yaounde to Dla, Nkongsamba my beautiful native town, Bafoussam etc) and the other under British Administration made up of Kumba, Buea, Limbe, Bamenda etc By the way I got this from your UN document.o yes "SC" is non existence as MsJoe rightly put it.

As for De Klerk in SA, he was ready to negotiate and talk about the future of his country con tray to biya who would like to see Cameroon turn into another Rwanda and/or Congo if not Central African Republic where we have to send planes to repatriate our fellow brothers and sisters. So yes I would like to see a type Jerry and Prince helping to take care of his behind without any hesitation particularly after the EVIL man killed many of my friends.

A man who can not allow even the remains of his "illustre predecessor" to return home and you are trying to tell us how we SHOULD treat him? Even dogs will refuse to eat his remains trust me...

Tagne

On Monday, December 30, 2013 9:58 PM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Jean Bosco,

On my score board, you are so far doing better than Ms Joe.

First, you recognize that any people (including Southern Cameroonians, I would like to presume) are better off with self-rule.

Second, you acknowledge a part of the historical fact that is Southern Cameroons even if you mistake the actual name. At least, you do not claim, like Ms Joe does, that SC is a non-existing polity.

Third, you would like my support in putting an end to dictatorship in Cameroon and reclaiming Northern Cameroons as Bakassi.

I am delighted that Jean Bosco is on record as being supportive of self-rule for all peoples. We are on the same side on that point. Fighting dictatorship consists of preventing the dictator from overruling the people. A lot more unites us than we think. We differ in the order of prioritization.

Because you mentioned them, I'd like to be on record:

I am no fan of the barbaric approach adopted by Jerry Rawlings to deal with the dictators before him, including not agreeing with taking up arms to seize power or executing political opponents.

I also do not agree with Liberia's Prince Johnson and his barbaric ways of settling political scores with Samuel Doe. There should be a place for President Paul Biya in the new Cameroon, much like there was one for De Klerk in South Africa.

The people most opposed to self-rule for Cameroonians and the people who are most supportive of the Biya dictatorship's denial or sabotage of self-government are Cameroonians themselves, and many of them are on this forum.

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Jean-Bosco Tagne <jtagne@yahoo.com> wrote:

Grand frère Boh Herbert,

Let me first answer your question by saying clearly that every people or group are better off when self-rule if self-rule according to you is taking care of their daily problems and I gave you earlier the case of Colorado compare to your Virginia in this same US of A.

Thanks so much for the link. It is even more instructif as again I found no where your "SC". The UN clearly said and here is the quote from the site:
"Cameroons (under French administration) Became independent as Cameroon in 1960
Cameroons (under British administration) Northern territory joined Nigeria and Southern territory joined Cameroon (1961)"
So are you going to join Cameroonians so that we can all fight to get back the other part of our Northern territory that joined Nigeria? We were able to get back Bakassi and need to get our brothers and sisters from the northern part of the Cameroons "under British administration" back.

Brother help here...Am I reading it wrong or it is still your so call "successes of dictatorship" turning me blind? I also know that the southern part of Cameroon is made up of the S and SW regions with the capitals name Ebolowa and Buea that I believe should be self-rule for the benefit of their population same as our NWR-WR-ER-LR etc with elected Mayors, governors and local leaders. So like the US and other modern country Cameroon still need is own leader but not EVIL of the type of biya paul and the sycophants working for him. We need a Jerry Rawlings in Cameroon. We need a Prince Johnson who can take care of him...

What say you?

Tagne

On Monday, December 30, 2013 8:46 PM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Jean Bosco,

To say that you know of West Cameroon but know nothing about the U.N. Trust Territory of Southern Cameroons is like claiming that President Ahidjo never existed because he existed before his successor. This is how the dictatorship wants. Cameroonians are to know little-to-nothing about their history, and boy-oh-boy, has the dictatorship been successful !

You can read up more about SC by visiting the weblink of the United Nations below.

http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/selfdet.shtml

But, that approach - of discussing the SC when the topic is self-rule - still takes us off topic.

If you prefer just tell this forum if you are for or against self-rule for the French-speaking part of Cameroon. If you are opposed, kindly let us know why self-government is a bad thing.

I'm ready to be converted and won over by your argument but you have to make one. I will be waiting.

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Jean-Bosco Tagne <jtagne@yahoo.com> wrote:

Grand frère Cameroonian Brother Boh Herbert,

What is really "southern Cameroon"? You are making all of us more confused now.
We know nothing about "SC" but a lot about "Western Cameroon". Can you educate us please may be that is why we have been behaving like dogs watching TV. How do you want a non existing state and/or country to self-rule? Self-rule what or who? The "SC" of Ntemfac Ofege and Larry Eyong Ebenezer with Washington-DC removal of presidential term limit of their candidate "a la biya paul"?

Massa let us focus on getting this dictator out ASAP and save Cameroonians from 31+ years of EVIL. Hope we are all on board now and I can count on you for sure. You are a great journalist my friend. There is no doubt about that till you start talking about "SC" something that never existed anywhere and people like me are starting to worry...about...

Tagne

On Monday, December 30, 2013 6:51 PM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:

My views on Southern Cameroons are known.

This challenge invites entries from those who oppose self-rule for Southern Cameroons or who believe it is bad for Cameroon. It is not about me or my views. Ignore me. Let us hear the arguments of those against self-rule for Southern Cameroons.

I could have asked: are you for or against democracy? When people start saying it depends, I wonder what they mean by "it depends".

This is a simple challenge: is self-rule desired? If you support it, you need not make the case. If, on the other hand, you are opposed to self-rule for Southern Cameroons, we want to hear from you on why it is bad.

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 6:31 PM, James Ashu <jamesashu@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello MsJoe,

Thank you for your response to Broda Boh. I thought I was the only person who does not see clarity in an important challenge like this one.

JTA

From: "MsJoe21St@aol.com" <MsJoe21St@aol.com>
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Hello Ni Herbert:

Happy Seasonal Tidings and a Prosperous New Year.

In deed, the question in your 2014 Challenge warrants clarity given your responses to the responders so far:

For example, when you ask Jean Bosco whether he likes the system in the USA where people self govern, do you mean Southern Cameroons is opting for a federated system? If so, a potential Southern Cameroons (assuming free thinking people in NW and SW Regions want to give up their respective identities) will still be under the central (federal) government of Cameroon. That's how the US federal system works.  In this case, someone may ask, why not 10 federated Regions?

You ask whether self rule is bad. It is quite good. It conjures the equivalent of whether fresh bread and all those good things of life and living are bad. But left to be explained are vital points like: the means and consequences of obtaining things desired, and the alternatives in order for people to give informed opinion or consent.

For example, if the devil in the details suggests that  ethnic unrests, meaningless schism based on colo-language, civil wars, etc. are likely processes, you may get different answers from the one you may get by simply asking people whether self rule , it and of itself, is bad.

So Ni Herbert, you have to enlighten the people on how self rule shall happen. Context matters.

God Bless,

MsJoe

In a message dated 12/30/2013 3:11:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jamesashu@yahoo.com writes:

Hello Mr. Boh,

I wish you and your family a Happy New year. Your 2014 challenge on Southern Cameroon lacks clarity. It may be interpreted to mean many things to many people. What do you really mean by self-rule for Southern Cameroon? Does self-rule mean independence for Southern Cameroons as a separate country? Does it mean self-rule like the states in a federal structure like the United Sates of America, but in the Republic of Cameroon? Does it mean a confederation with the Republic of Cameroon? In fact there are very many more permutations to this challenge. This matter is too important to be defined in vague terms. Please, be more specific. I hope you understand my confusion.

JTA

From: Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com>
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Cameroon Network <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; Cameroon Politics <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; Free Cam Ambazonians <FREE_Ambazonians@yahoogroups.com>; Cameroon SDF <cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Dear Jean Bosco,

I don't want to mistaken about your view, but can you clarify that you like the system of the USA where people self-govern? If you do, why is that bad for Cameroon?

Boh Herbert

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2013, at 2:25 PM, jtagne <jtagne@yahoo.com> wrote:

Massa Agbor

More and more interesting. ..Please let him know that again about our unified Cameroon. ..

Tell him that in his USA Denver for instance people self govern reason why they can grow and sell their green while in Virginia they can't for now all this in the same country call America.

Hahaha I may join your party with my good friend Sam Esale former what so ever of this evil regime of biya paul call cpdm. ..

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® II, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Agbor Enow Augustine <Enow007@yahoo.com> Date: 12/30/2013 11:22 (GMT-05:00) To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com,cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com Cc: FREE_Ambazonians@yahoogroups.com,Cameroon SDF <cameroons_sdf_party@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Can you tell this forum why self-rule is bad for Southern Cameroons? I get the argument that other Cameroonians are not better off, but how does that make self-government bad for Southern Cameroonians? How, in the absence of self-rule, is the current situation different from colonization? (Boh Herbert)

            The so called Southern Cameroons can not talk of self-rule, because it lacks the legitimacy and sovereignty to do so; and would be secessionist movements like the SCNC lacks the mandate from the very people they claim their subversive activities shall benefit. The coalition of the discontent few, who have constituted themselves into would be secessionist movements without followers are anti-nationalist. Their actions do not reduce the capacity of junta Paul Biya's regime to plunder state resources, but in effect sustain the regime by pitting Cameroonians against one another, strengthening the divide-and-rule tactics of the dictator. This distracts attention from the actual problems faced by the people in their daily lives.

            Former Southern Cameroon has genuine expressions of cultural, economic, and social grievances: Poverty and inequality of opportunities, a situation that affects 100 percent of the country, including the Littoral and Central provinces is one of them. Another is the attempt to make Cameroon a French speaking country, which I have said before will never work.

            Yes, it is true that the government of junta Biya has deliberately ignored legitimate grievances from minority groups, but who wants to listen to such grievances if the under 500 people behind the so called Anglophone movements propagate callous secessionist claims.

            We are finalizing the manifesto for the newly constituted Cameroon Peoples Nationalist Alliance and Mr. Boh Herbert will read more about this question. But the Republic of Cameroon remains a unified nation or cultural community with a shared history, languages, religions arts and music etc. The question of whether Southern Cameroons can govern itself is a distraction, because Southern Cameroon died in 1961.

Augustine Agbor Enow

Founder and Convener

Cameroon Peoples Nationalist Alliance (CPNA)

The outcome of my life is not more than three lines: I was a raw material I became mature and cooked And I was burned into nothingness. Rumi

On Monday, December 30, 2013 7:55 AM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Happy New Year 2014 to all!!! For years, advocates of self-rule and the restoration of Southern Cameroons have argued the merits of the case they make while opponents have generally said "No", "No Way", "No How". This is my 2014 Challenge for those opposed to self-rule (not decentralization) for any people (in this case, Southern Cameroonians): Can you tell this forum why self-rule is bad for Southern Cameroons? I get the argument that other Cameroonians are not better off, but how does that make self-government bad for Southern Cameroonians? How, in the absence of self-rule, is the current situation different from colonization? Please don't recycle the "Balkanization" argument because Africa was never ONE to start with. Secondly, various countries across the continent did not say "No" to independence (another word for self-government) claiming that African unity will be harmed by piecemeal independence. Opponents of self-rule, please take advantage of this challenge in 2014 and let us gear YOUR CASE. Who knows? You just may convince millions of us with your arguments. I will be waiting. Happy New Year 2014 !!! Boh Herbert Sent from my iPhone

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Tuesday, December 31, 2013

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RE: [camasej] Re: [cameroons_sdf_party] Re: [cameroonianjournalists] Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Cameroons (under British administration) Northern territory joined Nigeria and Southern territory joined Cameroon (1961)"

Re: [camasej] Re: [cameroons_sdf_party] Re: [cameroonianjournalists] Re: [camnetwork] My 2014 Challenge on Southern Cameroons

Cameroons (under British administration) Northern territory joined Nigeria and Southern territory joined Cameroon (1961)"