This patient was not disgruntled. She asked for the same favors her previous dentist had be giving her. I have people ask for things all the time but if I had no ethical mentality, I’d still be concerned about what she was doing and why she was asking me to cheat. We just had a pharmacist closed and lost his license because a “friend” agreed to act as a client for the Board of Pharmacy and the DEA. It sounded to me like this lady simply asked Kathleen to do the same thing her other dentist was doing for her.
Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.
The Swamp
Douglas, GA 31533
912-384-7400
This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recipient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.
From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Rodgers
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:11 PM
To: gmoor@windstream.net
Cc: safariandmd@aim.com; billgreenberg101@gmail.com; hameldds@gmail.com; craig@moseslakedentist.com; drvoller@comcast.net; drcarson@westlakedentalarts.com; ACEsthetics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] OMG - unethical
I think what several of us are saying here Guy is that we need more information. You have one disgruntled patient giving you information about another dentist. Before we burn the other doc at the cross we should have more information and the onus to get that information is on the patient. The trouble here is that the patient may have been complicit in the fraud so they may not be real open to sharing all the information. But who knows…you hear about bank robbers writing their demands on the back of their power bill so stranger things have happened.
Regards,
Jeff
On Apr 19, 2013, at 7:02 AM, Guy Moorman <gmoor@windstream.net> wrote:
I find it disturbing that everyone on here wants to blame someone but the person most likely to be doing this. The front office person could not be doing this without the dentist knowing and, hell, it doesn’t matter if he knows. He’s going to get nailed because he is responsible. Why do we dance around these thing? Hospitals are seeing massive assaults on us to catch fraud. You think everyone else cheats but dentists are honest. This statement was absolutely too precise for the average Joe Blow to come up with. I have NEVER had a patient ask me to do this. If it was done I would be the one suggesting it to get the cash.
Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.
The Swamp
Douglas, GA 31533
912-384-7400
This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recipient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.
From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of safariandmd@aim.com
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 9:13 AM
To: gmoor@windstream.net; billgreenberg101@gmail.com; hameldds@gmail.com
Cc: craig@moseslakedentist.com; drvoller@comcast.net; drcarson@westlakedentalarts.com; ACEsthetics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] OMG - unethical
Guy is it possible that this action is being taken be the the front office manager who is stealing from the dentist and the dentist has no clue? Why do we jump to a conclusion without asking first. Call the dentist and let them know of your finding and see how they respond then take action. There are criminals that work within our offices as well that some are not aware of. Embezzlement is real in our practices and they can come in many forms. Always call the dentist first prior to doing anything. JMHO.
Shahin Safarian DMD, MBA, LVIF | Irresistible Smiles
Carmel Valley/Del Mar 858.755.8993 | Chula Vista/Eastlake 619.656.6785
WEBSITE | FACEBOOK | LINKEDIN | YOUTUBE | THEBATTLEGUARD
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Moorman <gmoor@windstream.net>
To: billgreenberg101 <billgreenberg101@gmail.com>; hameldds <hameldds@gmail.com>
Cc: craig <craig@moseslakedentist.com>; drvoller <drvoller@comcast.net>; drcarson <drcarson@westlakedentalarts.com>; 'gnr' <ACEsthetics@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 12:27 AM
Subject: RE: [ACEsthetics] OMG - unethical
Bill, I’ve been dealing with two right here in my little town for over thirty years. One continued with the fraud by paying off one of the persons who threatened to report her…10 grand (all of this came out in board actions later). If they are cheating here and you call them so they can “correct” their billing then you absolutely are an accomplice to fraud and have the same exposure. I am stunned that people advise someone to “call a dentist who is committing blatant fraud”. What is wrong with us people? Have we sunk this low. When I started practice your ass would have been nailed in a heartbeat by the honest dentist next door. Today we rationalize that fraud is OK because the insurance companies are essentially doing the same thing. That was a stunning statement coming from a hospital board member.
This guy is committing a criminal act people. For Heaven’s sake how do you justify not turning him in. I’m just totally stunned.
Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.
The Swamp
Douglas, GA 31533
912-384-7400
This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recipient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.
From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 5:24 PM
To: hameldds@gmail.com
Cc: craig@moseslakedentist.com; drvoller@comcast.net; drcarson@westlakedentalarts.com; gnr
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] OMG - unethical
I would give the other dentist a call and let him know what you see and plan to do. Give him the chance to correct his "billing mistake" with the insurance company before your treatment gets submitted.
Bill Greenberg
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:21 PM, David Hamel <hameldds@gmail.com> wrote:
Kathleen, I'm leaning to what Craig has outlined here. A good deal of that reasoning for me is that you can ask yourself is the dentist really only doing what the insurance companies do? Do the not charge for something they have not yet provided? Don't they "sell" you something that you later find out is much lower coverage than you were led to believe? Don't they take from someone else to give (occasionally) to another?
Now that I think about it, he's not a dentist committing fraud. He's and insurance company!!!! : ))
Dave
David Hamel DDS
1200 Broadway
Marysville, KS 66508
785-562-5529 O
785-562-8115 C
KDA Past President 2010
On Apr 17, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Craig Harder, DDS wrote:
As always, you can only be honest with the patient. Let them know what's going on in their mouth and decide how you're willing to help financially from there, and the rest is up to them!
Don't own this one. Stay clear of it beyond the education of the patient's mouth. They will eventually, if they haven't already, figure out they got screwed by trying to screw the system
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr. Ray Voller
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] OMG - unethical
TOUGH call.
This is fraud, but who blows the whistle?
If it's you, you lose the friend in the process but help stop the fraud.If you leave it go, your conscience bugs the hell out of you to do SOMETHING.
I will look forward to seeing some of the answers to THIS one Kathleen!
Ray----- Original Message -----
From: Kathleen Carson, DDS
To: 'gnr'
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:51 PM
Subject: [ACEsthetics] OMG - unethical
OK – I am the LAST person to speak poorly about anyone in our profession. You just don’t know the whole story usually.
But… I had a consult today about recommended treatment on a family friend (actually a board patient of mine from 13 years ago that I haven’t seen yet – a friend of my cousins), she had been going to a different family friend who has been doing her favors to get insurance coverage. Billing last calendar year to max her benefits for treatment not yet done (ok… maybe slide on that and we ask for a refund so she can get the work done) but ALSO billing out as if he was doing dental work on her husband last year and this year and applying that money to her work also. REALLY? Would anyone say anything about this or keep with the dentists code of silence? Maybe I’m just naive with a stronger sense of what is right and wrong. And on top of it, it’s truly some of the worst dentistry I’ve ever seen and most needs to be redone from what has been done.
Advice?
Kathleen Carson, DDS
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