Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] CATHOLICS AND THE LAND GRAB PHENOMENA IN WEST CAMEROON

OK Mammie Samira Edi Mesumbe

Point well taken. You wrote: "To give any merit to your post, you must cite EXAMPLES, and not limit such heavily charged accusations in the realm of speculations".

Would the mention of Our Lady of Lourdes, Sacred Heart, St. Bedes, Sasse etc mentioned in Mishe Fon's mail suffice in your fertile mind as EXAMPLES to suit your whims? I honestly don't know what other examples Madame wanted Mishe to expatiate on.

The onslaught didn't stop there. You wondered aloud: "It will be better to avoid any crass generalizations"

Mammie Mesumbe; what were the "generalizations" when Mishe Fon specifically said he wanted to limit his "Baba analysis" to only the Anglophone Provinces putting more emphasis on the Catholic land Grabbing phenomenon in the Bamendrous region? I don't actually see this response as "going Native on you". Going Native? Mama-mia. For what? Na who hap l,heure 4 foorisse? If you fail to see the Catholics as "Land Grabbers", by all means, make your case. I think I have made mine...albeit with specific EXAMPLES. Were you expecting me to produce cathoro dem "Titres Fonciers" to argue my case? How then am I inciting "Tutsi / Hutu" type violence by saying aloud what everyone knows but are conspicuously silent about? Did I say anything that is new to you? Is it because most of us went to these schools, were treated in those hospitals, attend those churches...that we should silently "Lok we Mop, Cover we Eyes and put Mukuta coton 4 we ears"...and give the Catholics (I am one) a free pass? Has the Church ever given accountability to "We the People" on the various fees (school, hospital bills etc) that are levied on us? Or you simply want us to play the Ostrich game? Mammie Mesumbe Samira, I hereby beg to take leave of this discussion by wishing you well; hopefully, we will be on the same page in future "debates".

I think it was Voltaire who said: What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly - that is the first law of nature.

MISHE FON

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 1:25 PM, NDI MANJONG <ngahndi@yahoo.com> wrote:

One wonders the basis for introducing the "Hutu-Tutsi" experience to Mr. Fon's observation. No one condones how the Hutu went about the historical problem created for them and the Tutsis. The Hutus did not wake up one day and agreed among themselves to eliminate the Tutsis. The Catholic Church was involved in the historical cultivation of the problem between the two.

The Germans handed to the Belgians, their colonial inclination to the Tutsis. The Catholic Church had a Social Contract with the Belgian colonial establishment. In that contract, the church was to be given the money to run their schools on condition that the education discriminated against the Hutus. It is the resentment from the years of being discriminated against that contributed to the Hutus resorting to such untold barbaric acts on the Tutsis who were their brothers before the Germans and the Belgians arrived.

The church was stained by it not because people like Mr. Fon observed the church's complicity. The church is victim because its supporters looked away rather than call the church to being the advocate of justice to all beyond the nominal financial support to run schools. One can not hide a pregnancy with the hand for nine months. It is the tendency to believe it is possible that leads a DJ Eric to mention the Bambili-Babanki conflict rather than the Bali-Bawock conflict. Mr. Fon's observation is more useful to the church's introspection than silence in gratitude for the individual and collective good the church has on record. The original injecting of the Hutu-Tutsi experience into the discuss is a greater hyperbole than Mr. Fon's observation about the church's appetite for land.

NDI MANJONG.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From: Samira Ed i <samiritecreate@yahoo.com>;
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] CATHOLICS AND THE LAND GRAB PHENOMENA IN WEST CAMEROON
Sent: Wed, Apr 16, 2014 4:26:55 PM

Baba Lucas Fon,
You don't need to go native on me. You may be the writer of that email, but that element is only incidental to what is important to many -- I know you'll dispute this, and dismiss me and my concerns. If you did not dabble in a matter which bears a heavy import to the lives of Cameroonians, and the institutions mislabeled, loaded and worded in a manner that invokes hostility, with the language and the tone that could incite religious hatred, I'd have given it a pass. I'm fearful that people like you, with such incendiary posts may incite unnecessary violence and spur savages in Cameroon to take up arms and turn the country into the another Hutu/Tutsi slaughterhouse. We do not want that kind of bloodbath in Cameroon. Your post was filled with basic fundamental historical errors, which insult the readers, the country and the religious institutions which have been lumped together and tarred with an egregious brush and everyone involved by association. We have the benefit of history from which to draw lessons of caution. Religion has a totemic role in the rise of hatred and violence, no need to foment trouble.

Thank you DJ Eric,
You invoked a great example of a shameful episode of violence that exists between neighbours in the North West who speak basically the same dialect.
" I was in CCAST Bambili during the time the Bambilis had a land issue with the Babankis. What I witnessed isn't what I could wish to happen anywhere else. Sometimes we're saved from an all out Hutu - Tutsi like war just because we have so many small ethnic groups or villages that such conflicts tend not to involve more than 50,000 people at best." DJ Eric.

The word on the street is that this conflict between brothers has existed since the 1920s, and occasionally the underlying hostilities result in the break out of the most barbaric savagery. The whole of the NW is a hot bed of tension of Land disputes. As we speak, there are numerous pockets of hostilities over land between almost every village and its neighbour. When will it end? And I second your opinion,
"We must refrain from being the ones to fan such discord among our brothers and sisters or among religions." DJ Eric.

Absolutely. I wonder why some people have a tendency to unncessarily preach hatred!
aNyango

~~http://twitter.com/SamiraEdi~~

~~http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=829294837~~

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:15 PM, DJ Eric <arafonk@yahoo.com> wrote:

Very true Samira,

There's always two parts to every story. When we hear of one and take it for the truth, we tend to draw conclusions that don't do justice to the situation and breeds this 'air' of suspicion that is totally unnecessary. It also makes the commentator look like someone who is desperate for a bone to grind with one religion to the point that they could settle for a wild goose chase.

I was in CCAST Bambili during the time the Bambilis had a land issue with the Babankis. What I witnessed isn't what I could wish to happen anywhere else. Sometimes we're saved from an all out Hutu - Tutsi like war just because we have so many small ethnic groups or villages that such conflicts tend not to involve more than 50,000 people at best. So they can be contained by the forces of law & order easily. We must refrain from being the ones to fan such discord among our brothers and sisters or among religions.

I too am a proud product of a Catholic educational strata and I couldn't have wished for anything better.

Cheers.

A HEALTHY OBSESSION WITH MUSIC 240 478 9945

From: Samira Ed i <samiritecreate@yahoo.com>
To: "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; CAMNETWORK list <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:01 AM
Subject: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] CATHOLICS AND THE LAND GRAB PHENOMENA IN WEST CAMEROON

"Land Theft by the Catholic Church in particular and other foreign missionaries (Protestants, Baptists, Seven day Adventists etc) in general is nothing new" Mr Fon Lucas

It will be better to avoid any crass generalizations in an important discussion such as this. To give any merit to your post, you must cite EXAMPLES, and not limit such heavily charged accusations in the realm of speculations. This is the problem with Cameroon and information. The absence of proof is the bane of the society. People make general comments based on gossip and imagination and tend to pass them off as fact. While we do not know exactly what transactional details went on with the missionaries and their natives at the time, this is what we must avoid; bandwagon knee-jerk reactions, which stand the risk of inciting and creating an unhealthy feeling of hostility between these religious bodies and the locals.

I have heard of land grabs between entire villages in the North West province [notorious for neighborhood hostilities]; which is have resulted in perennial inter-tribal wars with swathes of land burnt, homes razed, and many innocents butchered with machetes and made homeless, theft of each others livestock, mass devastation, the unseating of the fon, and so forth. If my memory serves me well, the people of Balikumbat and Banbalang are locked in an on-going conflict for decades. Then there is also another spark between
Bali-Bawock andwell as Mbessa (Mbessanaku)-Oku.

So while we are concerned about the recent misunderstanding of the Catholic church and the Mbororos, let us refrain from making extreme generalizations which risk exacerbating the existing problems. The old established religious institutions in Cameroon have been generally good for the country. I'm a beneficiary of a Catholic and protestant upbringing and so are the vast majority of Cameroonians.

aNyango

~~http://twitter.com/SamiraEdi~~
~~http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=829294837~~

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 6:45 AM, Mishe Fon <mishefon@yahoo.com> wrote:

Land Theft by the Catholic Church in particular and other foreign missionaries (Protestants, Baptists, Seven day Adventists etc) in general is nothing new. These people came in the name of "Religious Evangelization", Education, Health Care delivery and bamboozled hungry Chiefs, Fons and other Traditional rulers into total acquiescence and submission. Let us look at the two Anglophone Provinces of North West and South West:

Bamenda alone: Imagine the land size that the archdiocese occupies between Mankon and Mendankwe, comprising RCM Big Mankon with an Olympic size stadium Football field in the middle of Bamenda city; Our Lady of Lourdes Secondary/High School sitting on several acres of Mankon land. About 11/2 miles further down Commercial Avenue another piece of Prime Real Estate land dubbed "Small Mankon". About three miles from Catholic Small Mankon, another gargantuan Catholic Enterprise (my alma-mata) the famous Sacred Heart College sitting on an entire hill in Ngomgham quarters of Mankon. In my very own village Alamatu, the same Catholics have expropriated huge chunks of landed property between Mile 7 and 8 and a little further down in Njumabughe, Ntankah and Ntambeng. All of these areas either have a church, a primary, secondary school or a maternity/dispensary/health center. For the sake of this discussion, I will limit my examples only to the small "City" of "Ntahbag" i.e Baminda Town.

YES, it is very true that the Catholics filled the void left by an unscrupulous Government that could not provide for its citizens basic rights like Health Care and Education. That is why any Anglophone who is anything today in Cameroon must have transitioned via one of these "Mission Schools". The famous names that come to mind: St. Joseph Sasse, Sacred Heart Mankon, Our Lady of Lourdes Mankon, Queen of Israel Okoyong Mamfe, St. Bedes Ashing-Kom, St. Augustine Nso, Bishop Rogan, St. Francis Kumba, St. John, Ndop, St. Patrick Nkwen, St. Jude, Alabukam etc.

These Catholics even implanted their Schools and Churches in far-off bush villages like Wum, Nkambe, Jakiri, Mbunting, Befang, Kaka, Babanki, Kejem Keku, Mundemba, Manyemen, Ekondo Titi, Ekiliwindi, even as far as Bangwa Mundani territory (who were neither Anglophones, francophones nor even Bayangui peepoo. A friend confided in me that: if U halla or open-eye 4 Bangwa man, he will tell you that he is from Dchang), Mbingo, Werekoum, Barebo, Ngui-Ngwo, Wainama, Tombel, Ekiliwindi...there is even one Secondary school (Bojungo Small Suppo) near Limbe where to this date no vehicle ventures even during dry season to climb the hill to that secondary school.

For these reasons alone, I praise the Roman Catholics for coming to the rescue of Anglophone Cameroonians. If not of these Missionaries, WE ANGLOPHONES should have still been in the DARK ages if we were awaiting the Government to provide Southern Cameroons with the most basic amenities.

That does not in anyway condone the fact that they have to steal our Lands with such reckless abandon bicos Ngopna don abdicate their duties. How different are they from the traditional "Bamileke and Bamendrous Land Grabbers"...who will "Beg" you for a small piece of land "to plant smol ngrenet 4 pikin dems" and before you know it, ih don tie ntang 4 the land. It is rumored that the Catholics now use "Rubber" and other elastic tape to measure their Land.

I am very pleased that the honorable Bishop has come to his senses and has now "Returned Back" the Land he was trying to "GRAB by Force" from the poor Mbororo People. I am seriously thinking about asking for compensation for the massive Land they appropriated from my family in ALAMATU to build their Church and School. Since their Schools and "Waspitaux" are non-taxable, very lucrative BIG Money Making Ventures I will ask them to "Settle Me 4 back back...bicos Money no like noise" BUT if I no hia from them kwik kwik, na dia me na dem go wear one trosa. Malchance.

Mishe Fon