Mark, I really don’t have a dog in this fight but do to a point. I’ve got some good friends who I cannot imagine violating the forum to a point of getting removed permanently who have had exactly that happen to them. The highlighted wording gives certain people great leeway in deciding just what is conducive to LVI standards and ideals. Exactly who decides whether these ideals and standards have been violated. Is it a board or can one or two people make that decision? I’ve spoken with some people who were pretty high up at LVI who seem to think that one or two people make these decisions…not right.
A short story. I brought four friends before Rotary as new members. They were passed through but the night before they were to be inducted I got a call from the president telling me that there was a ball on every one of the five. Now four could be assholes like me on occasion but one was damn near the second coming for living with the wife he lived with and treating her kindly. It didn’t seem right that one people could just “ball” a new prominent member of the community. I called a cousin who sent me to the secretary and the charter and bylaws. Seems that the bylaws state that to prevent membership one has to send a signed letter stating their reasons for not allowing a member into Rotary and that would be voted on by the board with a majority ruling. So sometimes what you don’t know is dangerous to an organization. We went from 32 members to 65 in less than 18 months once we found that a banker did not have the right to ban any other banker from membership.
People spend a great deal of money to get through LVI and to get booted from an informational forum associated with that institute that I had invested a hell of a lot of money in would be a very painful skewer. I, personally, know that email is a dangerous form of communication and mistakes can be made. Those HAVE to be forgiven. That LVI forum could be a huge plus to LVI but it seems to be a lodestone around their neck. I simply cannot imagine someone having the right to censor my email as long as it was not profane or pornographic.
I’ve been on ACE for a long time and it takes a board action to permanently remove someone from ACE. I can honestly say that everyone removed has been pretty much a lunatic and completely off the wall with nothing to offer. I’m betting Alex has something to offer. As I say, I don’t have a dog in this fight but Bill and Heidi should rethink this tossing of members off the forum. It is going to hurt them badly in the end. Just an opinion. Respectfully, Guy
Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.
The Swamp
Douglas, GA 31533
912-384-7400
This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.
From: Mark Duncan [mailto:mduncan@lviglobal.com]
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 10:46 AM
To: Guy Moorman
Cc: alexandrageorge@ymail.com; ACEsthetics
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Re: Chuck Flume speaks out
So weird to see how people get up in arms about this - members of the ACE forum have been removed as well so it isn't like it is unheard of in the first place! Also, it is hard to imagine being removed from an email forum as being skewered but if that is how you see it I suppose it is. It is also not fair to say that being removed from the forum means we think the people themselves are horrible. In fact, it isn't even 'horrible, horrible' things that will result in having you removed.
Here are the rules posted for conduct on the forum:
The opinions, beliefs and viewpoints expressed by the various authors and forum participants on this site do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs and viewpoints of LVI Global, LVI employees or official policies of the LVI. No emails may be forwarded, copied, faxed or disseminated without the permission of the author and LVI. No inappropriate behavior will be allowed on this forum, nor is it appropriate for individuals to solicit products or services on the LVI FORUM without prior LVI approval. All attempts to provide a positive, helpful environment should be met. LVI retains the right to eliminate from the forum those who violate any of these conditions, or they feel are not conducive to the LVI ideals and standards.
If someone does things that create a negative environment or promote a negative tirade or create conversation that is slanderous to other members of the forum that constitutes grounds for dismissal. It isn't unlike getting a speeding ticket. If you drive 55 in 45 zone the officer doesn't see you as a horrible person and you aren't hated for it. You are given a ticket that follows the guidelines that are clearly posted.
The LVI forum is a free service provided by LVI to the alumni who care to be a part of it in a positive manner and are willing to follow the guidelines as posted. This isn't that big of a deal or hard to understand - and for sure isn't at all like being skewered by someone further down the pole... Just makes so little sense to stand in judgement of other people when you know so little about what is happening - and since you have only small parts how can you feel good about passing judgement... Perhaps there is a better way to spend our energy?! Hope so...
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Guy Moorman <gmoor@windstream.net> wrote:
Alex, I've probably been kicked off of ACE as many times as anyone but the only ones I know that have permanently removed were ones who repeatedly distracted from the issues or brought things to the forum that were inappropriate. Personally, I’ve never seen anyone attack ACE so that might give LVI something to think about…why the attacks? You are safe here. Guy
Guy W. Moorman, Jr., D.D.S.
The Swamp
Douglas, GA 31533
This email message and any attached files are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the addressee(s) named above. This communication may contain material protected by patient rights, work product, or other privileges. If you are not an intended recepient, you have received this communication in error and any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, or other distribution of this email message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you have received the confidential message in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply email message and permanently delete the original message.
-----Original Message-----
From: acesthetics@googlegroups.com [mailto:acesthetics@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alexandra George
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:53 AM
To: mduncan@lviglobal.com
Cc: ACEsthetics
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Re: Chuck Flume speaks out
I was sending from my phone!! I was reading ace emails and I replied to chuck, his email was in the middle of the ace emails! I am very sorry for hitting the wrong button!!!
I apoligize!!
Sent from my iPhone
On May 31, 2012, at 12:19 AM, Mark Duncan <mduncan@lviglobal.com> wrote:
> Alex,
>
> You already posted goodbye to Sam on the LVI forum. Here it is.
>
> "Though the years I have come across many instructors that have helped
> me along the way to become a better person and dentist at LVI. I very
> much appreciate all the time and effort that they have contributed to
> my learning.
> This past weekend I had learned that Sam Kherani is no longer with
> LVI. I have not seen anything on the forum to let everyone know. I'm
> sure Sam has touched many lives in the past four years at LVI. I
> personally have found Sam to be a class act, a true gentleman and a
> leader in NM dentistry.
> I'm not sure if Sam is on the forum but, I wish him and his lovely
> wife well!
> Many Thanks, Sam!
> Alex"
>
>
> Then you decided to take a letter written by someone else that
> attacked someone at LVI and send it to thousands of dentists who you
> don’t know. The letter was a twisted interpretation of another
> heartfelt goodbye to Sam. I know because I wrote the initial email and
> knew it’s intent. I know precisely what I meant when I said the
> practice sale was still 'secret' and that to get the practice up to
> speed it would take work. Unfortunately that was twisted in the
> letter you posted to mean something sinister. That offends me
> personally and paints a terrible picture of LVI - not to mention
> creates a sour note in what should have been a worm and supportive
> letter to Sam. I know you didn't write it, but it wasn't your place
> to create your own private voice to make sure that gets to whom?
> Perhaps forwarding it to Sam would make sense... But the reality is
> that it was started with a venomous attack.
> We look at that as an attack on LVI and you were removed from our
> PRIVATE forum for doing that. Let me assure you, if you attacked ACE
> on this forum, you most likely would be removed… we know of people who
> have been. The LVI forum is designed to be a PRIVATE forum and we
> reserve the right to edit posts to it. It rarely happens, but with
> the twisting of intents that has occurred we had to.
> This whole situation is terribly unfortunate and the continued
> nonsense over it overshadows what we all SHOULD be doing - and that is
> wishing Sam well. He has just taken on what should be a great
> adventure with his new practice and has a wedding this summer. He has
> lots of things to make happen - and I am sure will. There is no
> reason to keep twisting things into a larger meaning than they have.
> And, Alex, for what it is worth, I was in Core VII seat today and then
> my son's little league playoff game and was actually in the middle of
> responding to your last email when I saw this. Sorry it wasn't on
> your time schedule...
> I bid you all peace and sure hope that we can let this die - there is
> no reason to throw stones at anyone - let it go...
> Mark
>
> On May 30, 8:01 pm, Kathy <kfra...@mac.com> wrote:
>> Alex
>>
>> Welcome to the forum!! You are certainly not the only one to be kicked off the LVI forum. You are with a great crowd of like minded dentists who you will love to learn about and learn with.
>>
>> Glad you found us.
>>
>> Kathy Frazar DDSwww.thehoustondentists.com
>>
>> On May 30, 2012, at 9:52 PM, Alexandra George wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chuck,
>>> This is Alex! you taught me a while back at Lvi. I can say, I DID NOT get the letter from you. And I have not spoken to you for years.
>>> I did send the mass email. And I feel fine with that. I did it because it was and eloquent letter paying respect and well wishes to Sam and his wife.
>>> And I also did it because of the censorship! I told Mark that a few times, plain and simple. (via email, I did not get a call)
>>> Yes, I have been booted. The ACE forum, is getting an outcast. I'm not a hell raiser at all, honest. I just was saying goodbye and good luck to Sam and speaking out against the silly censorship. It didn't get to the masses that the forum reaches so, I got to the dentists by passing the forum where it was intended to be read. I also asked Mark if I was taken off the forum because I emailed to people's personal address. I did not get a response. What I do personally should not be judged by Lvi forum. I have nothing to hide.
>>> I glad for change.... If ACE will take me.
>>> This is insane, I agree!!
>>> Alex
>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On May 30, 2012, at 10:00 PM, docfl...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>> “OMG! This is insane”. What an original opening salvo on the forum. Beginning with that quote I now feel compelled to defend myself. Obviously many of you have received an email of the letter which I composed giving kudos to a great dentist, clinical director, supporter of NM Dentistry, the IACA and LVI. Of course, I am speaking of my good friend Sam Kherani. Unfortunately, this letter was censored and not posted on the forum. The letter was intended to clarify a post by Mark Duncan and more importantly to give Sam a heartfelt thank you for all that he has done for each and every one of us.
>>>> After a foiled posting attempt I was confronted by a person who shall remain nameless. This person’s comment to me was that I shouldn’t post lies on the forum. The crux of this unfortunate story is this. Three (3) times I asked this person to answer one and only one question. Please tell me what is in my letter that you believe to be a lie? Three (3) times this person avoided answering the question and could not or would not respond with an appropriate answer. If you are making the accusation that someone is lying, please be prepared to defend those accusations.
>>>> Let me now move forward to the May 29, 2012 posts by Bill Dickerson and Mark Duncan. I will first discuss Bill’s post. I have had absolutely no communication from or to Bill since my letter was written and denied posting on the forum. Bill has now falsely implied and I quote “the email being mass sent by Alex and Chuck”. For the record Bill this is a BLATANT LIE by you. I do not know Alex, I have never communicated with her, not in person, not by email, not by text, not by letter, not by telephone nor by any other means of communication. I mass mailed nothing (that is until now). I did send my letter to 3 or 4 of my personal friends (Sam included). As an aside, the only reason I sent the letter to these 3 or 4 friends was because of you Bill. You or somebody obeying your orders chose to censor my post. This was certainly (even under an extreme exaggeration) not a mass mailing. My attempted post was clearly a response to a post by your own clinical director who by the way sits in an office almost adjacent to yours. You didn’t choose to censor his post. I was only responding. Evidently a dialogue only exists when you agree. Monologues are inherently for people who desire power, try to control, or are afraid of something. Just my take on the situation, however, I seem to sense an apparent paranoia surrounding Sam Kherani’s departure. This is not surprising to me when looking back at past clinical directors, lecturers, sponsors and instructors who are no longer at LVI.
>>>> Bill, you state “no more of this nonsense…it just seems so junior high-ish”. I do consider possible defamation of character and possible censorship to be junior high-ish. You further state “I don’t want any more posts on the forum about this subject”. Of course you don’t! I presume you want this subject to just go away. Well, maybe it will but not quite yet. From the conversations, emails, and calls that I am receiving, there appears to be a great deal of sentiment that things are not always as they seem. I have heard from colleagues that Alex has been booted off the forum. This along with a few others who have openly showed support for Sam, with no fear. It’s Bill’s forum, he has the right to block posts and kick people off. But for what? Expressing farewell to their mentor? No one has attacked LVI so what’s the deal? What fuels this immature behavior?
>>>> Now for another original…”This has gotten silly”. Mark, there is nothing silly about possible censorship even though legal in this case. There is nothing silly about thanking Sam Kherani and there is certainly nothing silly about a BLATANT LIE. You state and I quote “you have gotten an email that Alex sent that was forwarded from Chuck”. As neither Bill nor you confirmed any of your allegations against me I must personally call into question your honesty regarding this post. News Flash: I DID NOT FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO ALEX…PERIOD. It is always easy to spew forth venomous lies about me. After all, I guess I am unable to defend myself on the forum as my post would probably be censored. Eventually honesty will triumph!
>>>> To all of my friends and colleagues; By now you know me well enough
>>>> to realize that I will not be walked upon by innuendos and lies. I will set the record straight knowing full well the possible consequences and spin which in all probability will come to fruition. I cannot speak for Sam but will be forever grateful for his contributions to our profession and to me personally.
>>>> In closing I believe each and every one of us must reflect upon our own station in life. The U.S. just celebrated Memorial Day. This day gives utmost respect and adoration to those who sacrificed and in some cases gave the ultimate sacrifice so that we may be a free people. I cannot refrain from mentioning freedom of (truthful) speech and freedom of the press. We must also strive to obtain freedom from fear and coercion. Honesty, ethics, and integrity are paramount to maintaining our personal freedoms. I challenge all of you to do yourself a huge favor. Walk to the mirror, look yourself directly in the eyes and ask yourself…Am I honest? Do I possess integrity? Am I ethical? Then, ask the ultimate question and you be the judge…Am I truly free? I looked in that mirror this morning and it was exhilarating… I am free!
>>>> God bless,
>>>> Chuck Flume
>>
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>
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Mark Duncan, DDS, FAGD, LVIF, DICOI
Clinical Director, LVI
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