RE: [MTC Global] Considering industry experience in academic institutions under career advancement scheme [ CAS]

Dear Esteemed Learned Scholars:

Greetings!

We request at this point to change our course on other important issues. This discussion will continue as both sides have good points to ponder. Thanks a lot for expressing your views on such an important relevant topic.
Let us summarize :

1. Industry and Academia need to work closely and jointly for exchange of information and create values in multiple interfaces.

2. One needs to be a good teacher (irrespective of designation).

3. Industry experience definitely help in effective delivery and bringing industry close.

4. Academicians, good at fundamental knowledge, clarity and analytical skills can add immense values to the students. If fundamentals are good , then it becomes easy to relate, draw inference , structured thinking and analogy.

5. Need to have a good mix of academicians and industry experts in the department.

6. Teachings is an art. But anyone having passion and love for teaching can easily pick it up.

7. In teaching there is no working hour. A teacher is a teacher 24/7. Hence, passion and commitment are of top priority.

8. Good Ph.D. Really helps in strong analytical thinking, mastery in the area of study, scientific, systematic approach, analogy and exploration of new ideas.

9. Mutual respect is very important.

10. Many things depend on the college processes and management philosophy.

11. No hypothesis or inferences as teaching is an art and passion. Anyone can become a very good teacher without /with Ph.D /Industry experience.

12. Academicians not having any industry experience may find difficulty in explaining few concepts but always that gap can be Filled-up through consultancy work, research, MDP , corporate training and industry sabbaticalS.

13. We need to join hands without any luggage for the holistic development of management education .

Thanks once again for all expertise views....

Happy knowledge sharing.

Bholanath

Sent from my Nokia phone
-----Original Message-----
From: Virendra Goel
Sent: 29/08/2012 10:31:23 am
Subject: RE: [MTC Global] Considering industry experience in academic institutions under career advancement scheme [ CAS]

I beg to differ with the observation that one comes to academic from
industry when he is not required in the industry. I have seen a number of
young professional moving from industry to academics during their hay days
when they were making good money and winning accolades in their profession.
Second, now a days working life is up to 75/80 years so even if a person
enters the profession of teaching at 60 and he is good at his task, he still
has lot more to contribute.

Regards

Virendra Goel



From: join_mtc@googlegroups.com [mailto:join_mtc@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of feroz ikbal
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 2:28 PM
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Considering industry experience in academic
institutions under career advancement scheme [ CAS]



Hi,

when does a person comes from Industry to Academics . A frank answer will
be 'when he/ she is no longer required in the industry.".

The love for academic work will come to a practitioner when he becomes
outdated or thrown out or retired from the industry. In class rooms he will
be like a soldier who always boasts about the old war.

Today what management education or education as a whole requires is not the
absence of practitioner, it is the lack of sound conceptual knowledge which
needs to be transferred to the students.

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 10:36 AM, soumya sagiri <soumyasagiri@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi All,



I am coming back to MTC after a long time later due busy with work schedules
and meetings - Reg PhD, academics and Industry exp - i have a detail write
up in the past. Like to share with you all again. You can let me know your
comments or feedback or anything you wish.



On this topic i can share my thoughts and views.

1. PhD is supposed to be provided to only those who has done genuine
research or innovation or discovery or process excellence. However in
today's world especially in Management field PhD are offered with out proper

addition to literature or innovation or discovery or process excellence
especially in India.

Even a Doctorate can be offered to a person who wide knowledge in one
practical area with above 10 years of experience.

2. According to me to teach Management, PhD is not required. Most of the
people who process PhD don't have practical exposure to Industry, process,
sectors, cultures, structures, divisions and practical exposure towards
these. Any person with sound knowledge in basics, practical exposure in the
Industry, domain expertise is enough to teach the students.

3. Management is all about Industry not about PhD, just a literature review,

survey, case or empirical research is not enough to provide the
practicalities of the business , they need to experience, feel the pressure,

targets, deadlines, real implementation of strategies, standards operating
procedures, real innovative technologies, cultural diversity, communication,

team dynamics, stages of growth, experiencing the emerging sectors etc.

4. Most of the people are forgetting the truth that PhD is used for
enhancing individual knowledge to discover something and provide new
theories, mechanisms and to improve domain expertise, however it is not at
all related to the profession of being an excellent academician. Most of the

professors struggle with ego problems in academics. Academics lacking
transparency, proper escalation real education all together just because
"One Degree Sake" - Real respect is missing ...

I saw one movie long back ( I don't remember the name now) - In the movie
they explained clearly when a person tries to learn more and more expertise
they forget the basics so a Professor always need to go back and learn the
basics (Common Sense) to bring real innovations and creativity.

5. I personally feel real academician is supposed to work few years in
Industry and need to work in academics, later on again after few years later

they need to go back to industry and come back with new flow of knowledge to

train the students as emerging and skillful managers.

6. The important aspect is most of the people are pursuing PhD just for the
sake of obtain the degree, lucrative scale and respect in society. But how
far they are really doing justice, how far they done the research
research? OR simply accumulating the literature and data, obtaining PhD
doesn't lead to any where....other than exceptional Universities.

7. The AICTE or Govt need build such kind of rules where the person should
certain years of Industrial experience or some kind provisions need to be
created to obtain real industry exposure and a PhD are eligible to become
professors. I saw even PhD holder don't know how to write a basic article or

research paper, they convert student SIP reports as papers. The Indian
education system lacking real skills, innovation and creativity.

8. As per my personal observations (again limited in nature) most of the
professors busy in managing politics in academics, reluctant to change and
they even don't know the basic Microsoft tools like Word, Excel
& PowerPoint, if these minimum things are not known to a professor- how can

a student will meet real industry standards. Everybody need to think
logically and practically - Especially professionals in Management field
need to have industry exposure.

Their theories on what they regarded as a thoroughly scientific basis (.
Examples include Henry R. Towne's "Science of management" in the 1890s,
Frederick Winslow Taylor's "The Principles of Scientific Management" (1911),

Frank and Lillian Gilbreth's "Applied motion study" (1917), and Henry L.
Gantt's charts (1910s). J. Duncan wrote the first college management
textbook in 1911. In 1912 Yoichi Ueno introduced Taylorism to Japan and
became first management consultant of the "Japanese-management style". His
son Ichiro Ueno pioneered Japanese quality assurance.

The first comprehensive theories of management appeared around 1920. The
Harvard Business School invented the Master of Business Administration
degree (MBA) in 1921. People like Henri Fayol (1841-1925) and Alexander
Church described the various branches of management and their
inter-relationships. In the early 20th century, people like Ordway Tead
(1891-1973), Walter Scott and J. Mooney applied the principles of psychology

to management, while other writers, such as Elton Mayo (1880-1949), Mary
Parker Follett (1868-1933), Chester Barnard (1886-1961), Max Weber
(1864-1920), Rensis Likert (1903-1981), and Chris Argyris (1923 - )
approached the phenomenon of management from a
sociological<
<http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=https://mail.google.com/wiki/Sociology>
https://mail.google.com/wiki/Sociology>perspective.

Peter Drucker (1909-2005) wrote one of the earliest books on applied
management: *Concept of the Corporation* (published in 1946). It resulted
from Alfred Sloan (chairman of General Motors until 1956) commissioning a
study of the organisation. Drucker went on to write 39 books, many in the
same vein.

H. Dodge, Ronald Fisher (1890-1962), and Thornton C. Fry introduced
statistical techniques into management-studies. In the 1940s, Patrick
Blackett combined these statistical theories with microeconomic theory and
gave birth to the science of operations research. Operations research,
sometimes known as "management science" (but distinct from Taylor's
scientific management), attempts to take a scientific approach to solving
management problems, particularly in the areas of logistics and operations.

Some of the more recent[developments include the Theory of Constraints,
management by objectives, re engineering, Six Sigma and various
information-technology-driven theories such as agile software development,
as well as group management theories such as Cog's Ladder.

As the general recognition of managers as a class solidified during the 20th

century and gave perceived practitioners of the art/science of management a
certain amount of prestige, so the way opened for popularised systems of
management ideas to peddle their wares. In this context many management fads

may have had more to do with pop psychology than with scientific theories of

management.

*All these experts are from Industry some are engineers, psychologists,
process or entrepreneurs inn the organisation used to do routine tasks and
operations, these theories are not born from faculty cabins they
experimented their knowledge, learning's on shop floors, industries, markets

and various other platforms. How drug undergoes various clinical trials and
finally reaches market with brand name and formulae.*

Management is learned better through experiencing the practical
knowledge and applied, then theories are build - added to literature - Any
theory for that matter is experienced first by the scientist or developer
used various other sources of material which are used practically than that
is converted into contemporary Theory. For that matter clerk job or peons
jobs they are people who might to do the same thing in different way with
less period of time that is called efficiency and just in time. How come
their
knowledge will be zero, obviously they do posses certain amount of skills
and knowledge.

I don't think anybody will have zero knowledge, even the mentally
handicapped person to posses some knowledge through routine tasks and
observation. Business & Management is required to be learned from beggar,
street vendors, house wife, clerks, managers, CEO, entrepreneurs, lenders.
All these people stories are today case studies for us from street vendors
to film making.

Only thing in any profession a person need to learn, how competitive he is
supposed to be? Flexible to change and adapt in this nature. Then the
ultimate thing to see the commitment of nature to us is to be patient enough

to reap the fruits. Need to accept the change and update our self
continuously.

Earlier, i am also a student, Management Teacher and now I am a Resource
Manager for Billion Dollar Company we are continuous learners : i need
everything from professors, but they can't teach practical
stuff sometimes more than a concept, then i need industry experts to learn
the reality, later when my exams are approaching i need professor again.
Every student is like this ----- Only solution is flexible enough to learn
history, practicality, emerging dynamics in the society to meet complete
student requirements.

This information is not to offend any body thought process; however we need
to change our attitude towards education system, student's requirements and
in holistic nature.

kindly revert me for further suggestions and comments.



Thanks & Best regards,
Soumya Sagiri | Sr. Resource Manager | Romack | office 972-573-3342 x 110 |
cell 972-975-8201 | 5525 N MacArthur Blvd., Suite 550, Irving TX USA 75038
Fax 972-573-3303, Yahoo id : soumyasagiri, Gtalk: soumyasagiri
Email: Soumya.Sagiri@romackinc.com







On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:40 PM, Richard Hay <profhay@gmail.com> wrote:Dear
All,

The topic is quite interesting and augurs well for us to deliberate on it.

One big advantage for an industry exposed faculty is that he can quote from
real life situations with practical and time tested examples while the
campus- faculty in an educational institution depends only on theoretical
knowledge and handles classes with the bookish knowledge he possesses. Even
if he is a remarkable faculty, there are limitations for him to go deep into
the subject from the practical point of view.

But at the same time the industry exposed faculty may not possess the
dexterity and proficiency of a campus- faculty until and unless he prepares
well.

I believe that teaching is an art and it requires strenuous and focused
preparation, continuous training for professional development and a strong
desire to excel.

May I add that the quality of curriculum and the faculty are decisive
factors which would ultimately decide the quality of the product in any
educational program. While designing the curriculum, it may be noted that
academia and industry level consultation which is the need of the hour for
all practical purposes is resorted to for enriching the quality of
curriculum, and thereby improve the quality of education in the country.
When such a fusion takes place, academic institutions will have to depend on
industry oriented faculties too to a certain extent. The presence of
industry exposed faculty will be both productive and mutually beneficial for
both the systems,

It is in this context that MTC ians can play a key role in facilitating
continuous education training for the faculties of all types,whether he
comes from an industrial background or not.

" All the world over there is a realization that only through right
education can a better order of society be built up"-Jawaharlal Nehru.



Prof Richard Hay

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:51 PM, R P Singh <rpsingh55@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Nagarajan, I agree that competencies required for academic and
industrial organisations are different. However, there may be some who can
effectively perform both roles and there are many who are misfit in both.
Point is B-School Grads are not supposed to just pass the exams, they need
to acquire certain skills and competencies failing which they will not be
employable. Here lies the difference. Academically oriented Industry
leaders can definitely add value in this process of transformation of young
minds into good business leaders. This can also be done by competent
academicians as well . Regards, Dr R P Singh

Sent from BlackBerryR on Airtel

-----Original Message-----

From: nagarajan vasudevanrao <v.nagarajan99@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 08:58:44
To: <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Considering industry experience in academic
institutions under career advancement scheme [ CAS]



Dear MTC team,
One cannot by overnight become what they aspire to. As rightly said
by some members teaching and industry experience go parellelly. A
Teaching faculty cannot become an Industry Specialist nor an Industry
specialist become a good Teacher. They are two different entities.
Each discipline requires introspection and high intelectual calibre
notwithstanding the acceptance by the constituents or the users or
the beneficiaries as the case may be. Teaching a subject by a teacher
and describing an event with relevent examples on the same subject by
an Industry specialist will not satisfy the requirements of
educational curriculum which is more exam oriented. Perhaps the wards
may enjoy when you describe an incident or an event with relevent live
examples from industrial experience which will be different in
countenence notwithstanding the fact that it will not be ueful in the
examination point of view.

Some MTCian have told that afterall the Management students are going
to work in an industry after graduating from Business schools and
hence if the Industry specialists are engaged to take lessons it
would be incidentally beneficial to the students to get tailored to
the needs of an industry once they take up employment.
I have indutry experience of over 3 decades in HR/IR field and I love
delivering guest lectures in different business schools and conduct
FDP in many organisations and the participants like the way I
conduct the FDP and the Guest lecture sessions nevertheless I do not
consider myself as a teacher which is a totally different segment.
Just because Management students like the way we deliver guest
lectures on a particular topic/subject and also interestingly interact
we cannot cling to the idea that we can become a good teacher.

We cannot synchronise Educational curriculum which is practiced by the
Institutions and the intellectual and technical capacities of the
Industry specialits. Otherwise industries themselves can become
training specialists and run institutions parellel to the educational
institutions which is not practical.

Educational institutions according to me are the centres of laying
foundation for creating centres of academic excellence required for
industrial growth.
V.Nagarajan,
Retd.General Manager-HR (TTK Prtestige Limited, Hosur)
HR Trainer & Advisor,
0999 49 19619 <tel:0999%2049%2019619>
mail id: vnagarajan99@gmail.com

On 8/26/12, pranjali m <pranjalim7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> This discussion is really going good..I have a question on this..
> As we all said that industrial experience can be count in the teaching
> experience in academic service.
> But if any faculty was doing full time legal practice as an advocate, can
> that full time practice also should be count in academic experience &
> should be given justice to their law practice.
> Kindly guide on this also..Can we put a Public Interest Litigation on
this
> to High Court?
>
> Prof. Pranjali M
> Pune
> Email id:- pranjalim7@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 8:17 PM, ananda reddy
> <anandareddy@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> True.
>>
>> The skill of facilitating learning a particular subject needs to be
>> learnt
>> and practiced. This holds true not only for those who have worked in the
>> industry, it holds true for those who have completed their Ph.D.
>>
>> I have over 20 years of industry experience, over 10 years of consulting
>> and teaching experience. I have been a faculty member teaching specific
>> subjects, Principal of Colleges, Training Manager & Trainer in the
>> industry
>> and am now an entreprenuer. I have conducted FDPs, Success Seminars for
>> Students, continue to mentor faculty members and also taught subjects
>> when
>> necessary. Different roles need different skills.
>>
>> In my experience, it is all about creating interest in the subject and
>> then helping the student to learn. Learning is the learner's
>> responsibility.
>>
>> With Warm Regards,
>>
>> Ananda Reddy
>> Founder Director
>> ACE Institute for Creating Excellence
>> 33, 1st Main, Sheshadripuram,
>> Bangalore: 560020
>> Ph: +918147092023 <tel:%2B918147092023>
>> email: anand@ace-institute.com

>> URL: www.ace-institute.com <http://www.ace-institute.com>



>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: goel.virendra@gmail.com
>> To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [MTC Global] Considering industry experience in academic
>> institutions under career advancement scheme [ CAS]
>> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2012 16:25:06 +0530
>>
>>
>> Can we look at the problem little differently!
>>
>> Industry experience may make one eligible to be a good leader to manage
>> an
>> educational institute or a good mentor. As far as teaching is concerned
>> it
>> is altogether and different skill and even an experienced person from
>> industry will have to acquire this skill. I have an industrial
experience
>> of 48 years, I managed a top ranking CBSE school for 25 years and I
>> mentored the teachers all the time, I conducted even FDP, I have been
>> founder chairman of a engineering and management institute. I used to
>> hold
>> motivational lectures of two hours duration with the students where I
>> could
>> command full attention and respect of students. But if I am asked to
>> teach
>> a subject in the classroom, I do not find myself equipped for that
>> purpose.
>> Reason is very simple - I have to go down to understanding frequency of
>> the
>> students to be able to effective from high frequency of thought process
>> and
>> communication and I may not know how to do that. Even in teaching
>> community, I have come across teachers who are very good in their
>> contents
>> but they are ineffective in the classroom.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Virendra Goel
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* join_mtc@googlegroups.com [mailto:join_mtc@googlegroups.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *Chandrakanth Sharma
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 25, 2012 10:29 PM
>> *To:* join_mtc@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [MTC Global] Considering industry experience in academic
>> institutions under career advancement scheme [ CAS]
>>
>>
>>
>> do u know even CEOs of 1000 crore companies are not eligible to work as
>> principal or profes
>> sor......p c k sharma
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Ashok Matani
<ashokgm333@rediffmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hon. Sir
>>
>> Subject : Considering industry experience in academic institutions under
>> career advancement scheme [ CAS]
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] The importance of industrial experience is that it is useful for
>> teaching subjects namely, energy conversion, thermodynamics, heat
>> transfer,
>> power plant engineering, energy conservation and power plant economics,
>> non-conventional energy sources, industrial management & costing,
thermal
>> &
>> fluid power, machine drawing, industrial management, production
>> technology,
>> industrial projects, seminars, etc. in the technical education system.
>>
>>
>>
>> [2] Some of the academicians having only industry experience have been
>> selected in Universities/ engineering colleges on higher posts in IITs/
>> IIMs/ Govt Engg colleges
>>
>>
>>
>> [3] Persons having industrial exposure are nominated on Board of
>> Governors / Senate members in Autonomous colleges approved by AICTE /
>> UGC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [4]The outputs of technical education systems are mainly *appointed in
>> industries.*
>>
>>
>>
>> [5] The *curriculum* of technical education systems are industry based
>> and are regularly updated as per needs of industries.
>>
>>
>>
>> [6] Case method based on industrial case problems are taught in
>> IITs/IIMs/ majority of technical education institutions throughout the
>> world.
>>
>>
>>
>> [7] Industrial visits for teachers and students are regularly
conducted
>> for industrial exposure .
>>
>>
>>
>> [8] STTPs , seminars, conferences , workshops based on industry problems
>> are highly appreciated by AICTE/ ISTE and grants are sanctioned for
these
>> areas.
>>
>>
>>
>> [9] Industry-institute-interaction [I-I-I] is the main component of
world
>> bank aided / TEQIP projects indicating the importance of industrial
>> experience to the academic world.
>>
>>
>>
>> [10] Projects , and seminars of final year students are based on
>> Industry are now compulsory for technical education system students
>>
>>
>>
>> Considering the importance of industry experience towards improving
the
>> quality in the teaching profession , it becomes evident to consider
>> industrial experience [ at any level of appointment ] gained after
>> bachelors degree should be considered for CAS purposes .
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Anil G. Tardeja
>> President
>> Shiv Education Foundation
>> Bapu Colony, Kanwar Nagar
>> Amravati-444606[ MS]
>>
>>
>>
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>






--
Soumya Sagiri