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Friday, March 1, 2013

Re: [ACEsthetics] Heart disease someone?

Todd, that was a hard fact to accept when I first saw the science. After decades of "Animal protien = death" to realize that wheat and the starches we make from it causes more obeisity, heart issues, etc etc is scary in that we are lied to by large companies and thrilling in that it gives us an insight to better health.
 
On 2013-02-28, at 9:40 PM, Sent Via mobile wrote:

Whoa! That line of thinking is more outdated than the hair I used to have.
Please tell us you know saturated fats are actually necessary and you know there is no link b/t dietary cholesterol and the cholesterol in your blood. Do we need to go over the likes of the great cholesterol cob again?.

Sent Via Mobile device


DAVID SULTANOV <savtth@msn.com> wrote:

Thank you for helping me to make my point. Meat gives you a high dose of minerals, some vitamins and protein, but all these nutrients can be consumed in other ways. To me the high saturated fat and cholesterol negates the benefits in the long run with the heart disease, arteriosclerosis, excessive free radicals, effect on joints and all the other problems saturated fats cause.

Stop picking on Rick, he's been catfished more times than Manti Teo.

David 

From: tshewman@insight.rr.com
To: savtth@msn.com; riccoker@gmail.com
CC: drmaclee@gmail.com; ACEsthetics@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Heart disease someone?
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:12:19 -0500

Baylor compared a group on a diet without beef, consumers of beef took in more vitamins A, C, B vitamins, niacin, phosphorus, magnesium, iron, zinc, potassium, and protein.
Lamb - high in omega 3 fatty acids, folate, choline, homocysteine, vitamin B 12 etc etc.
But again, the source will matter (just like the veggies). The more natural (less crap) the animal takes in, the better it is for one (just like pesticides on veggies).
Also, good for us does not mean EVERY meal and no one needs a 16oz steak.
 
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Heart disease someone?
 
<<Biology and research shows good animal proteins are in fact good for us.>> What research? I've seen lots of articles about meat being a great source of protein but none have taken the stretch that it's a good thing long term.
 
David
----- Original Message -----
From: tshewman
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Heart disease someone?
 
Many who write books (like Hyman, McDougall etc) have active practices, but because they sell books, or supplements etc, that means they are not correct? So, if a dentist is selling a treatment are they incorrect also? Could be why Hyman chooses to sell supplements (don't know him so do not know) as he doesn't have any big pharma companies supplementing his income (nor grants as I recall).
For the china survey, I only point out some of the limitations (like the contradictory statements to their own data as well as to other studies done in that same region with evidence to the contrary).
McDougall's criticism included the promotion of a vegetarian diet, yet used evidence where positive outcomes were produced using animal meats and dairy (a little contradictory).
I don't just believe what I choose. I unfortunately have to change when evidence presents itself. I formerly thought low fat was a good thing. I was wrong biology and research has demonstrated this. Research tells me lots of plants are a good thing. Biology and research shows good animal proteins are in fact good for us. Too much of anyone of those and not enough of another, is not. That's why there can be deficits in vegetarians, more pure meat eaters, those who don't relax, those who sit too much. It's never "just do this".
 
From: Rick Coker
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Heart disease someone?
 
Sometimes I wonder what you would do if I never posted anything, Todd, you seem to just sit and wait for me to say my opinion and then rebut it! <g>
 
Having met and been with both McDougall and Esselstyn, they are both men whose careers are long and distinguished and for the most part, they are probably looking more for impact than book sales or lecture opportunities. You can't see any signs of avarice, and since you can't patent plants or plant based foods, there aren't any big companies looking to pay them for their endorsements. Sure, their wives sell cookbooks, but both still have their medical practices as well.
 
 
Both of those men have consistently argued for plant based diets, with little or no additional fats. They think that the Mediterranean diet as presented was better than the average diet, but had way too much fat, and even the statistics showed no increase in longevity, as I recall. McDougall criticized the study as very poorly done, as I recall.
 
The upshot is that you have to believe what you choose, but when for some reason, most of us totally resist the simplicity of a plant based diet, most likely because it doesn't sound that tasty, I think.
 
Rick


On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:20 PM, tshewman <tshewman@insight.rr.com> wrote:
They do sell their surveys in the forms of books. E.G. The China Study (survey) wasn't a study, not even peer reviewed. peer reviewed has it's challenges, but is best we have at this point. Even the data (their own) is miscalculated. In the article from the below link there are many things that have been disproven (like the "eating cholesterol is bad for you" theory).
There was a recent news letter trying to debunk the Mediterranean diet (by one of the authors Rick mentioned) and in the letter one of the articles used meat and dairy products to reduce lesions in heart diseased patients. So what are they selling?
Are they ALL wrong? No. Just extremes that is either ignoring or is unaware of the other things that are contributory.
 
From: Rick Coker
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:06 PM
Cc: Ace
Subject: Re: [ACEsthetics] Heart disease someone?
 
You get around these guys, McDougall and Esslestyn, you really don't get any idea that you have to buy their books or pay to hear them at all. And they don't sell supplements or really anything.  
 
 
Rick


On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Mchenry Lee <drmaclee@gmail.com> wrote:
Rick,
 
I know he is saying that with plant based diet there is no cardio disease and he is selling seminars and books to back it up.
 
Do you believe or have you read solid studies that back that up?
 
Mac

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Rick Coker <riccoker@gmail.com> wrote:
Take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EqKNfyUPzoU
 
Rick
 
--
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Director, Academy of Comprehensive Esthetics
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Dr. Mac Lee
Want to learn more about communicating with patients?


 
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Dr. Rick Coker, DDS, FACE
Director, Academy of Comprehensive Esthetics
www.tyler-smiles.com, www.tylersleep.com
http://www.google.com/profiles/riccoker.
903-581-1777
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--
Dr. Rick Coker, DDS, FACE
Director, Academy of Comprehensive Esthetics
www.tyler-smiles.com, www.tylersleep.com
http://www.google.com/profiles/riccoker.
903-581-1777
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