Chief Taku,
From a lay man's position, I see Dr. Tumasang's young experience, taking him principally to uncomfortable extremes for clients.
My suggestion will continue to be that he should limit his academic excercise to the legal group. You people should argue it within that circle and we on the lay people's side, should be given the consensus result.
ngwang gumne
----- Original Message -----
From: Chief Charles A.Taku
Sent: 06/30/13 11:47 PM
To: cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com, camnetwork@yahoogroups.com, ambasbay@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [cameroon_politics] Southern Cameroons: Suing Britain
Ntemfac / Dr Tumasang,
My opinion on this and related postings is that like senior counsel Paul Muite, many lawyers pontificated on the possibility of the Mau Mau case surviving in the British Courts for want of precedent. Well, like all good lawyers, he and his team were bent to setting that precedent and won.
The Southern Cameroons case has several variations. Those who feel strongly about the strength of our case as I do will pursue it. It is now clear that Dr Tumasang for all the reasons he has presented here and elsewhere, he is unwilling to pursue the matter any further. We are left to see what actions he will take as the Hon Attorney General of Ambazonia to lead the Ambazonia to freedom. He can now take off time from these public postings to do just that.
Chief C.Taku
From: Tumasang Martin <tumasangm@hotmail.com>
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:33 PM
Subject: [cameroon_politics] Southern Cameroons: Suing Britain Hi Prophet Ntemfac,the Germans were very hard on Cameroonians including Southern Cameroonians. They actually fought with my Bafut people and subjected my people to various brutalities. I am not sure of the British Brutalities and human right violations and the scale of it in Southern Cameroons candidly. Would be interesting to know of examples of the actual physical brutalities by the British as was the case in Kenya. On the breach of the trusteeship agreement, that is another story that stands alone with its own peculiar problems including but not limited to the fact in law, it is generally not possible to claim rights or obligations from a lapsed instrument like the trusteeship agreement unless some special arrangement was made for certain rights or obligations to survive or there is a way that they can be construed to have survived . The Bulgaria vs Isreal case at the ICJ confirmed this. Even if the Bulgaria vs Isreal case is considered as Sui Generis by some, the Northern Cameroon case also confirmed this. The case of Barcelona Traction Preliminary Objections at the ICJ although decided in a different way, in principle confirmed this, and in the case of Fisheries Jurisdiction, UK vs Iceland, it was said that is principle is necessarily not wrong although this case was not decided based on the principle. I know arbitration clauses can survive the lapse of an agreement or instrument based on what we call the principle of compétence de la competence or what is know in German as Kompetenz-kompetenz but this does not apply here for we are beneficiaries and not even parties to the trusteeship agreement. The agreement is between the UN and the UK and even UN members cannot sue Britain based on it as shown in the South West Africa case in the ICJ. Although on the surface it is popular for the gallery to say sue Britain, once you get down to the details, how do you cross this initial barrier?. Never mind other problems of getting a local court in the UK to accept jurisdiction for such a case which is a serious problem by itself. I am just concerned for now with the fact that the trusteeship instrument has lapsed. I do not accept something just because everyone accepts it and think it is the case. Torture, murders, etc cannot be part of diplomacy or foreign affairs of a state and such crimes against humanity are in a different category to breach of a trusteeship agreement.
Regards
Tumasang
> To: ambasbay@googlegroups.com> CC: cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com; camnetwork@yahoogroups.com> From: ntemfacnchwete@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 13:22:50 +0200> Subject: [camnetwork] Re: Southern Cameroons: Mau Mau Victory: Old Empires Shiver, but Whether There is Enough in Southern Cameroons (e.g. torture, detentions, unorthodox interrogations etc.) for Successful Legal Claims Against Britain is Another Matter Altogether.> > Dear Dr Tumasang,> Human rights violations - brutalities - is one issue.> Violations of the Trusteeship Statutes is a different issue.> Do well to stop looking for excuses and get on with it.> Whether there is enough for successful legal claims is another matter> altogether indeed.> How would you know whether or not there could be successful claims> when you have not even tested the waters.> You have 57-pages of record to start with.> Do you want more?> > On 6/30/13, Tumasang Martin <tumasangm@hotmail.com> wrote:> > Mau> > Mau Victory: Old Empires Shiver> >> >> > Saturday, 29 June 2013 00:00> > By Kamal Tayo Oropo News> > - World> >> >> >> > User Rating: / 1> > PoorBest> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > IN what many thought would end up as another exercise in futility, a group> > of> > self-determination freedom fighter may have blazed the trail in making the> > British and other colonialists and/or their representatives admit to crimes> >> > committed against humanity.> >> > Call them Mau Mau, a nickname Kenya Land and Freedom Army (KLFA) or Uma Uma,> >> > which means 'get out get out' in Kikuyu, the outcome of their stunning legal> >> > battle against the United Kingdom, for the systemic violence committed> > during> > the group's struggle for self-determination, is unprecedented.> >> > Indeed, apart from Germany, which was made to pay for Holocaust crimes> > committed against the Jews, the world has hardly witnessed any foreign power> >> > found guilty of misdeeds against the locals.> >> > On Thursday, June 6, 2013, nearly 200 elderly Kikuyu people traveled from> > their rural homesteads and sat before the British high commissioner in> > Nairobi.> > Over half a century had passed since many were last in front of a British> > official. It was a different era then in Kenya. The Mau Mau war was raging,> > and> > Britain was implementing coercive policies that left indelible scars on the> >> > bodies and minds of countless men and women suspected of subversive> > activities.> >> > In the 1950s they experienced events in colonial detention camps that few> > imagined possible. On this historic day they gathered to witness another> > unimaginable thing: the much-delayed colonial gesture at reconciliation. The> >> > High Commissioner read extracts from William Hague's earlier statement in> > parliament. Hague acknowledged for the first time that the elderly Kikuyu> > and> > other Kenyans had been subjected to torture and other horrific abuses during> > the> > Mau Mau insurgency. On behalf of the British government he expressed> > "sincere> > regret" that these abuses had taken place, announced payments of £2,600 to> > each> > of 5,200 vetted claimants, and urged that the process of healing for both> > nations begin.> >> > The faces of the elderly camp survivors betrayed the day's historical> > significance. Tears rolled down faces lined from years of internalised pain> > and> > bitterness. Many sat motionless as the High Commissioner read the statement.> >> > Others let out audible gasps, and cries of joy. Some burst into songs.> >> > Yet, the Mau Mau victory is not only theirs as Britain's acknowledgement of> >> > colonial era torture may have opened as many intended doors. Kenya was not> > alone. British colonial repression was systematised and honed in many parts> > of> > Africa and several other parts of the world including Palestine, Malaya,> > Cyprus,> > Aden, Northern Ireland and elsewhere, British coercive counter-insurgency> > tactics evolved, as did brutal interrogation techniques. The Mau Mau> > detention> > camps were but one site in a broader policy of end-of-empire incarceration,> >> > torture and cover-up.> >> > In the wake of its announcement, Britain now faces potential claims from> > across its former empire. From a historical perspective, the government has> >> > every reason to be concerned about its legacy. There is unequivocal evidence> > of> > colonial brutalities in many former colonies. Whether there is enough for> > successful legal claims is another matter altogether.> >> > Britain is, however, not alone. Alleged atrocities of Portugal, the first> > and> > the last colonial power to leave Africa, are legendary. The Portuguese> > misdeeds> > are rivaled only by those of France, particularly in Algeria and Conakry> > (Guinea), Belgium in Congo and Germany in Namibia. Dutch and Italian> > atrocities> > are not exempted> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> > --> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups> > "ambasbay" group.> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an> > email to ambasbay+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.> >> >> >> > > -- > > > > The thing always happens that you really believe in; and the belief in> a thing makes it happen.> > > ------------------------------------> > Camnetwork is the premier Cameroon/Cameroun forum since 1997.Yahoo! Groups Links> > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/camnetwork/> > <*> Your email settings:> Individual Email | Traditional> > <*> To change settings online go to:> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/camnetwork/join> (Yahoo! ID required)> > <*> To change settings via email:> camnetwork-digest@yahoogroups.com > camnetwork-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com> > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:> camnetwork-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
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