Re: Re :Re: [governance] Internet Shutdown: An IGC Statement to the ISOC Cameroon Chapter?

Delphine

Toutes mes condoléances à toi et ta fille pour cette énorme. 

Comme quelqu'un qui a perdu sa conjointe, je comprends la situation de votre fille. Elle a toute ma sympathie

Vraiment, perdre son ordinateur, c'est perdre une partie de sa vie. Vraiment terrible. Je te connais très forte et capable de surmonter toute épreuve à brève échéance. Du courage, ma sœur.

When you get to Yaounde, please talk to Janvier that he is helping a government and doing terrible harm to the Cameroonian people by spewing the nonsense that he states here. When he talks of WAR against secessionists, is that appropriate? If that is not appropriate, how does he expect the world to look at the world to look at our government and then us the citizens?  No one has ever shocked me in my over 60 years on earth like Monsieur Janvier Gnoulaye.

Can you join me to ask Mister Janvier Gnoulaye to tell the world the number of Cameroonian soldiers that have been killed by the "secessionists" that he claim since we all know how many have been killed by Boko Haram. His condescending mood on anglophones like his francophone likes bothers me less

With love

Aaron

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 1:26 PM, NANA Delphine <delynana2002@yahoo.fr> wrote:

Bonjour Aaron,

Malheureusement, je n'ai pas assisté.à l'AG de ISOC CAMEROUN et je ne suis non plus sur cette liste.

Je viens juste de decouvrir tous les message,

En plus, depuis de le debut de la crise, je suis indisponible sur le net, ma fille a perdu son epoux, il vient d"être enterré, il ya une semaine

Pire encore, pendant que j"etais aux obsèques mon ordinateur a été volé.

Image son contenu ! Je suis meurtrie.

Je suis perdue  !

Toutes mes excuses.

Delphine

 

Envoyé depuis Yahoo Mail pour Android

Le mer. j févr. PM à 12:43, Nyangkwe Agien Aaron

<nyangkweagien@gmail.com> a écrit :

Dear all

Mr Janvier Gnoulaye writes.

"Cameroon is in a situation of war against the secessionists, who have at one time erected their flag inside one part of the territory, no one knows by who they are supported and financed.

Can some remind Janvier that Boko Haram uses arms that are bought from abroad in their killings of our national and no one deemed it necessary to cut Internet from that part of the territory.

Who are the seccesionists? Let him clarify. He talks of people flying flags. So what? When Obama won elections in America did we not see Americans fly the secessionist flags and a petition of over 500 000 South Americans calling for the southern states to opt out of the union?.What nonsense is this about secession? Is the call for state nationalism not same in Corsiga in France, Scotland, Catalona et all.

He talks of Cameroon being at war with secessionists, the government of cameroons has killed many anglophones through fire arms since the beginning of the current crisis and many are reported missing. I challenge Monsieur Janvier Gnoulaye to tell the world the name of one Cameroonian soldier that has been killed bu us the "secessionists". In the North we hear of Boko Haram killing Cameroon soldiers. How comes there is war with secessionists and we have mainly secessionists killed. Did great America achieve that in its wars in the American countries. Ladies and gentlemen, let it dawn on you all that ISOC Cameroon is an arm of government.  

Delphine Nana, (je t'ai copié cet mail) as-tu assisté à la réunion avec Janvier Gnoulaye? Pourquoi est-tu silencieux sur cette affaire? Solidarité francophone oblige n'est ce pas? Y-a-t-il guerre entre les sécessionnistes au Cameroun? Quel est le nom du Général sécessionniste.

Agien Nyangkwe (Aaron) is my name and I approve the above message

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Mawaki Chango <kichango@gmail.com> wrote:

P.S. In my previous email, at the end of that sentence where I mention "political and security issues... on the ground" I would want to insert the following as a footnote. Whatever the issue at hand and the legitimacy of fighting against it, it still appears to be the predominant view among CS that shutting down the Internet does not resolve the problem while taking related rights and freedoms away from people the overwhelming majority of whom have nothing to do in causing the problem. Anyone, including from among concerned ISOC Chapter members, is free to agree with the government approach on this, or try to justify it, and anyone else is equally free to disapprove of it. That's basically all IGC is trying to do through this statement, taking into account in this specific context the kind of expectations one would hold toward any group of people claiming membership to ISOC. 

On Feb 1, 2017 9:18 AM, "Mawaki Chango" <kichango@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Arsène et al. 

We deliberately decided to keep it short, on purpose. This should not be approached as an input from IGC to a complex global policy issue, on the world stage. (Not to mention that we did not want this to get into endless debates as IGC is accustomed to.) Neither did we want it to take a turn to, or us to be suspected of, lecturing. That's why we further motivated the exercise, with a narrow focus, by recalling the specific communication that prompted it. 

You can see from Javier's first response that even those precautions prove not to be enough to warrant our declaration, in his view. Apparently he would want us to withdraw altogether from, and keep quiet, on the issue (if I'm being mistaken here on the implications of your response, I stand to be corrected.)  

In the meantime, I personally think our above described precautions should suffice. The statement doesn't get into the presumably complex political and security issues that the government might be dealing with on the ground. In the communication that prompted our statement, maybe Janvier just got carried away in an attempt to avoid a wholesale condemnation of his country in the global community of civil society. But the email posted is there including terms and a rationale which are unacceptable to us, and we needed to express our concern and register our disapproval of such. We are not making claims as to how hard working and committed ISOC Cameroon may or may not be toward facilitating Internet access to all in Cameroon, in ordinary times.  

Mawaki 

On Feb 1, 2017 6:13 AM, "Arsène Tungali" <arsenebaguma@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Norbert, Mawaki,

Thank you for the draft as suggested. It is very short, i wonder if anyone who was not part of these discussions or who will see it for the first time on our website will be able to understand the background. Just thinking outloud :)

I leave it open to the community for comments, etc if applicable. I suggest we close it by 11:pm UTC this Feb 1st.

We will then post it on our website and send it to the appropriate persons, to follow the process as agreed here.

Meanwhile, i see Mr Janvier already responded (which is a good sign imo) and i suggest we discuss his response once we have formally sent this letter.

Hope this is fine with you'all.

Thanks,
A
-----------------
Arsène Tungali,
@arsenebaguma

+243 993810967
GPG: 523644A0
Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo

Sent from my iPhone (excuse typos)

> On Jan 31, 2017, at 9:32 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb@bollow.ch> wrote:
>
> Dear Arsène and all
>
> Please find our proposal at
>
> https://docs.google.com/docume nt/d/1pQjEQ5UtR4D7f0HYeJsK0upP KnJTEyWULk-fUSajTd8/edit
>
> I'm also including the text below.
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
>
> -- draft starts --
> To the ISOC Cameroon Chapter
>
> Dear Colleagues
>
> The Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus (IGC, http://igcaucus.org)
> is a global network of civil society actors who originally came
> together in the context of the World Summit on the Information Society
> (WSIS) to promote global public interest objectives in Internet
> governance policy making.
>
> We are firmly convinced that Internet shutdowns are not acceptable in
> regard to any region and not justifiable in any way, and that such
> shutdowns must be opposed vigorously.
>
> We would have expected everyone who associates themselves with ISOC to
> be committed to ISOC's principle stating that "The Internet is for
> Everyone".
>
> For further elaboration of the important principle of /Internet access
> and affordability/ along with related rights and freedoms, we refer to
> the African Declaration on Internet Rights and Freedoms,
> http://africaninternetrights.o rg/articles/ .
>
> In light of these principles and rights, we would like to respectfully
> urge the ISOC Cameroon Chapter to adopt a corresponding strong stance
> in regard to Internet shutdowns in some regions of the country, and to
> denounce and oppose such dreadful measures with all earnestness.
>
> The reason why we write to you in this matter is a posting to our
> mailing list on January 26, 2017, which was signed "ISOC Cameroon,
> President" and which expressed views that were not at all consistent
> with the above.
>
> Best regards
> Internet Governance Caucus (IGC)
>
>
>
> Cc: ISOC's regional contact for Africa, bekele@isoc.org
>
> -- draft ends --
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 17:54:30 +0200
> Arsène Tungali <arsenebaguma@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Norbert,
>>
>> Thanks for Mawaki and yourself for willing to take on this task. I am
>> happy with the process as you suggest it (with the hope that everyone
>> is happy as well): writing to ISOC Cameroon with cc to ISOC Global.
>>
>> Please do send us the draft once finalized and we will allow at least
>> 24 hours for the IGC to comment before this can be sent. Please do
>> share it in a Google Drive (do not allow edit by anyone but just
>> allow people to make contributions in form of comments in the margins
>> of the doc).
>>
>> Regards,
>> A
>>
>> ------------------------
>> **Arsène Tungali**
>> Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international
>> <http://www.rudiinternational. org>*,
>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <http://www.smart-serv.info>*, *Mabingwa
>> Forum <http://www.mabingwa-forum.com >*
>> Tel: +243 993810967
>> GPG: 523644A0
>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>>
>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2 015/06/selected-for-2015-mande la-washington.html>
>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>> <http://www.internetsociety.or g/what-we-do/education-and-lea dership-programmes/next-genera tion-leaders/igf-ambassadors-p rogramme/Past-Ambassadors>
>> & Mexico
>> <http://www.internetsociety.or g/what-we-do/education-and-lea dership-programmes/next-genera tion-leaders/Current-Ambassado rs>)
>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-20 16/class-of-2016/> -
>> Blogger <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN Fellow (Los Angeles
>> <https://www.icann.org/news/an nouncement-2014-07-18-en> & Marrakech
>> <https://www.icann.org/resourc es/pages/marrakech55-attendees -2016-03-14-en>
>> ). AFRINIC Fellow (Mauritius
>> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/lib rary/news/1907-afrinic-25-fell owship-winners>)*
>> - *IGFSA Member <http://www.igfsa.org/> - The HuffingtonPost UK
>> <http://www.huffingtonpost.co. uk/liza-bel/drc_b_8958150.html >
>>
>> 2017-01-30 16:36 GMT+02:00 Norbert Bollow <nb@bollow.ch>:
>>
>>> Dear Arsène and all
>>>
>>> After a quick exchange with Mawaki, I'm happy to report that Mawaki
>>> and I are willing to work out a joint proposal.
>>>
>>> In regard to who the letter should be addressed to, Mawaki and I
>>> think that the statement should be addressed to ISOC Cameroon. At
>>> the most, we can cc ISOC Global for the record. As made clear in
>>> the communication excerpts forwarded by Arsène, ISOC Global is
>>> already taking action and Chapter office holders are volunteers who
>>> are not bound to the organization by a required line of conduct as
>>> would be expected from staff of ISOC Global. Therefore we cannot
>>> reasonably hold the global organization accountable for any Chapter
>>> official's position and put them in the position to be answerable
>>> about it -- which will appear as being the case if we address a
>>> letter to ISOC Global, -- especially when their response is already
>>> known.
>>>
>>> We think that the statement should be short and narrowly focused,
>>> and articulated on the basis of some basic principles which should
>>> be sufficiently self-evident to not need any in-depth debate in IGC.
>>>
>>> You may expect us to post proposed text shortly.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Norbert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:02:56 +0200
>>> Arsène Tungali <arsenebaguma@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> Starting a new thread.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to thank everyone for raising your concern about
>>>> what's going on in Cameroon which is just another country added
>>>> to the list of African countries that have experienced Internet
>>>> shutdown. I am from the DRC and we have experienced this more
>>>> than 3 times and I am in the best position to highly condem this
>>>> new form of oppression.
>>>>
>>>> I would also like to thank everyone who have expressed their
>>>> concern over what Mr. Janvier had to say about the shutdown in
>>>> his country, where he volunteerly serve as ISOC Cameroon
>>>> President. I join you all and condemn his position on this, which
>>>> I can assure you, is his own position, not shared by his other
>>>> colleagues at theISOC Chapter. Proof is he reacted to his other
>>>> colleague who had a different view and who was making an appeal,
>>>> asking for more coverage and action regarding what's going on in
>>>> his country.
>>>>
>>>> For your information, ISOC has issued a statement
>>>> <http://www.internetsociety.or g/lets-keep-internet-everyone? utm_content=
>>> bufferc442c&utm_medium=social& utm_source=twitter.com&utm_cam paign=buffer>
>>>> condemning the shutdown in Cameroon as well as in other countries.
>>>> This show that ISOC, as an organization, does not support
>>>> shutdowns but rather condem it firmly (as we all know).
>>>>
>>>> And, on a different mailing list, Mr. Nicolas Seidler
>>>> <https://www.internetsociety.o rg/who-we-are/people/mr-nicola s-seidler>,
>>>> who is Senior Policy Advisor for ISOC said the following:
>>>>
>>>> We felt it was time to formally express our long-standing
>>>> concerns on such measures, in the context of the Cameroon
>>>> situation and in view of others to come up in the future. We are
>>>> also supporting and giving visibility to efforts from Access and
>>>> members of the Keep it on campaign on our social media channels.
>>>>
>>>> And he reacted on Mr. Janvier's stance and ONLY had this to say:
>>>> Finally, we have an ISOC Chapter in Cameroon, as in many other
>>>> parts of the worlds. While not all members of Chapters share the
>>>> same view (a Chapter is made of local volunteers, not staff),
>>>> there are some who want to act and we'll make sure to direct them
>>>> to Deji, Julie and others involved in the advocacy effort.
>>>>
>>>>> From the above, we understand that it was a personal point of
>>>>> view from Mr.
>>>> Janvier which, as most of our colleagues said here, is completely
>>>> wrong. I do personally believe that when a single person is
>>>> restricted access, this should be raised and condemned. In
>>>> Cameroon, we have 2 regions affected and this is terrible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Now, coming back to the discussion on this list regarding a
>>>> statement, I would like to suggest the following:*
>>>> 1. We can issue a statement adressed to ISOC Global (to ISOC
>>>> Executive Director for example) condemning the public stance
>>>> taken by ISOC Cameroon President. May I suggest *Norbert and
>>>> Mawaki* to make an initial draft statement and share with us
>>>> within the next 48 hours (if at all possible)?
>>>>
>>>> 2. We then issue a more general statement condemning Internet
>>>> shutdown across the world as a civil society coalition because I
>>>> am sure this is the new form of opression that Gov are taking (as
>>>> said by Snowden). It will be very useful we use the expertise we
>>>> have here to draft this and circulate it widely in all networks
>>>> as a way to condemn the act but also to raise awareness about the
>>>> issue (which is still unfamiliar with those who are not actively
>>>> involved in these discussions or who have never experienced any
>>>> shutdown). *For this, I would like to ask request few volunteers
>>>> to make an initial draft statement as well?*
>>>>
>>>> Please do let me know what you think or if there is another
>>>> approach that we can all agree on and take action without
>>>> wassting more time. If you want to be part of the team of 3 to
>>>> draft the second statement, please do let us know on this list
>>>> within the next 48 hours.
>>>>
>>>> Very best,
>>>>
>>>> Arsene, IGC Co-cooordinator
>

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______________________________ ______________________________
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--

Aaron Agien NYANGKWE
P.O.Box 5213
Douala-Cameroon
Tel. 237 673 42 71 27

--

Aaron Agien NYANGKWE
P.O.Box 5213
Douala-Cameroon
Tel. 237 673 42 71 27

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