Mr Owona,
you still do not appreciate my point at all. Despite what I have said below, those who will be ambitious are already known by an all knowing being before they were created. They have no choice in the matter. They will be ambitious in order that what was already known should come true. It is not by their own volition that they are ambitious lest they should boast but they are ambitious because ambition had been granted to them before the creation of times.
As a rejoinder, Jesus and his disciples met this man born blind and crippled and the disciples felt really sorry for him. One disciple asked "Master, who sinned that this poor man is born blind and crippled. Is it him that sinned or his father?". Jesus answered " None sinned. He was born blind and crippled so that the glory of the son of man shall manifest through him".
What this means is that the man was born blind and crippled so that Jesus (son of man) will pass by and heal him and his glory will manifest through the blind and crippled man. What an answer for one of the most important questions ever asked.
If Southern Cameroonians do not accept their faith and resign to their unfortunate lot, it is because the all powerful being had known this resilience of Southern Cameroonians before the creation of times. The continuous campaign is to bring to pass what he had known even before Southern Cameroons was created. Man cannot contradict his designs with vain words or actions. His purpose is magnanimous, his ways are unknown, for he draws a straight line in croaked ways, but the expanse of the heavens (universe) depicts the works of his mighty hand and the faith he has for Southern Cameroons shall come to be in his own appointed time.
Regards
Tumasang
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
CC: ambasbay@googlegroups.com; cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com
From: ogeorgesjules@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 04:22:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] RE: @Esale/Owona: Wise Quote: Religion, Responsibility and Fear (minor typho corrected)
By the very definition of God, man cannot take full responsibility for his actions. God is omnipotent and omniscient. Meaning he is all powerful and all knowing. Meaning that he knows that all the past, present and future. What he knows cannot come out wrong. He already knows that the below writer will end up in hell or heaven, will today go down in Monamousadi and slept with a university student or drink and get drunk etc. This is known even before the writer was born and what is known must come to pass. How then can the writer claim any responsibility for such action?. Cosmic smoke and shadows and delusion of choice one might say.
Dr Tumasang,
If we truly believe the above quote from you, then we have no reason to be ambitious in life.
It means that our lives have already been shaped for us and we do not need to belabour ourselves.
It means that it has been ordained that Biya and his clique terrorise the rest of Cameroonians with impunity.
That Southern Cameroons should accept their fate and resign to it rather than complain everyday. That the 3rd world will continue to languish in misery and poverty and we should not make any effort to fight back. That we should be observers rather than be actors on this earth.
If that were so, then SAF is very correct to say that the christian God is a hoax.
you still do not appreciate my point at all. Despite what I have said below, those who will be ambitious are already known by an all knowing being before they were created. They have no choice in the matter. They will be ambitious in order that what was already known should come true. It is not by their own volition that they are ambitious lest they should boast but they are ambitious because ambition had been granted to them before the creation of times.
As a rejoinder, Jesus and his disciples met this man born blind and crippled and the disciples felt really sorry for him. One disciple asked "Master, who sinned that this poor man is born blind and crippled. Is it him that sinned or his father?". Jesus answered " None sinned. He was born blind and crippled so that the glory of the son of man shall manifest through him".
What this means is that the man was born blind and crippled so that Jesus (son of man) will pass by and heal him and his glory will manifest through the blind and crippled man. What an answer for one of the most important questions ever asked.
If Southern Cameroonians do not accept their faith and resign to their unfortunate lot, it is because the all powerful being had known this resilience of Southern Cameroonians before the creation of times. The continuous campaign is to bring to pass what he had known even before Southern Cameroons was created. Man cannot contradict his designs with vain words or actions. His purpose is magnanimous, his ways are unknown, for he draws a straight line in croaked ways, but the expanse of the heavens (universe) depicts the works of his mighty hand and the faith he has for Southern Cameroons shall come to be in his own appointed time.
Regards
Tumasang
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
CC: ambasbay@googlegroups.com; cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com
From: ogeorgesjules@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 04:22:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] RE: @Esale/Owona: Wise Quote: Religion, Responsibility and Fear (minor typho corrected)
By the very definition of God, man cannot take full responsibility for his actions. God is omnipotent and omniscient. Meaning he is all powerful and all knowing. Meaning that he knows that all the past, present and future. What he knows cannot come out wrong. He already knows that the below writer will end up in hell or heaven, will today go down in Monamousadi and slept with a university student or drink and get drunk etc. This is known even before the writer was born and what is known must come to pass. How then can the writer claim any responsibility for such action?. Cosmic smoke and shadows and delusion of choice one might say.
Dr Tumasang,
If we truly believe the above quote from you, then we have no reason to be ambitious in life.
It means that our lives have already been shaped for us and we do not need to belabour ourselves.
It means that it has been ordained that Biya and his clique terrorise the rest of Cameroonians with impunity.
That Southern Cameroons should accept their fate and resign to it rather than complain everyday. That the 3rd world will continue to languish in misery and poverty and we should not make any effort to fight back. That we should be observers rather than be actors on this earth.
If that were so, then SAF is very correct to say that the christian God is a hoax.
On Monday, October 28, 2013 9:01 AM, Tumasang Martin <tumasangm@hotmail.com> wrote:
Rabi Esale,
before you throw some light on the issues raised, I will like to posit that "fear" is a relevant parameter in the cosmic brew and we cannot take full responsibility for our actions as the below writer suggests.
Jesus himself said " I know my sheep and my sheep knows me. No one comes to the Father except it had been granted to him by the Father before the creation of times". Again he told his disciples " Be not happy that the spirits succumb to you but be happy that your names are written in the book of life".
It means names of some people have been written in the book of life even before the creation of time so if someone ends up in hell how can one take responsibility for such a result?.
The same bible states "It is not by the works of the hand that man is saved but by the grace of God lest man should boast for it is not granted unto a man who walks to direct his step".
The above shows clearly that we cannot fully take responsibility for our actions. Even our steps we do not direct them.
The same bible states that "The good works of man are like filthy rags in front of God".
By the very definition of God, man cannot take full responsibility for his actions. God is omnipotent and omniscient. Meaning he is all powerful and all knowing. Meaning that he knows that all the past, present and future. What he knows cannot come out wrong. He already knows that the below writer will end up in hell or heaven, will today go down in Monamousadi and slept with a university student or drink and get drunk etc. This is known even before the writer was born and what is known must come to pass. How then can the writer claim any responsibility for such action?. Cosmic smoke and shadows and delusion of choice one might say.
Just as a reminder, when God sent Moses to go and tell Pharaoh to let his people go, he again told Moses " I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go and I will stretch my hand and strike him and the world will know that I am the lord". How on earth can Pharaoh with a cosmically hardened heart be held accountable for refusing to let the Israelites go?. He cannot never take responsibility for such cosmically manipulated action , no, never.
If you ever watched Jesus Christ superstar, perhaps you will see how the issue is perfectly dramatized. As per that version of events, Jesus was being sad at the last super and said " One of you here dining, one of my 12 chosen will live to betray me". Judas relied "Cut out the dramatics you know very well who". Jesus replied "why don't you go do it, hurry they are waiting". Judas "You want me to do it?, what if I just stay here and ruin you ambitions?".
Even when Judas went to the jews to betray Jesus as per this version, he said " I haven't thought of my own reward, I did not come here of my own accord"
What Judas was basically saying is that Jesus and his father have cooked this whole thing very long time ago, and he has no choice in the matter. A sacrified pawn in a cosmic game of good and evil with father and son fighting against Lucifer and Judas chosen before he was born to play an important part designed for him by father and son. If he fails to go and betray Jesus, he will ruin the ambition of Jesus and his father. He said to the Jews, "I did not come here of my own accord so please don't say I am damned for all time". Based on this version can Judas be held take responsibility for his actions?. I think not.
(NB: The above Judas version of events is not from the standard King James version of the bible. Its just an illustration of the issue of responsibility).
On fear
I believe the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It is not a wrong translating.
God said. "I Jehovah I am a jealous God. For the iniquity of a man, I can punish up to the third generation and for the goodness of a man, I can bless up to the 100th generation". Is it not wise to fear a jealous God who can smite you out of jealousy that you perhaps recognized some other gods in competition with him for your affection?.
When Moses begged God to see his face, he replied that "No man has yet seen my face and lived". Is it not wise to fear such a being?.
The Israelites were so scared of God sometime in the past that they could not call his name. They referred to him as "He who has no name". Is it not wise to fear such a being?.
Summary
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom but the love if God is the application of wisdom (Tumasang).
NB: The biblical quotations above are not exact for I did not check the bible for the exact words but the essence is as stated in the bile.
CC: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
From: ogeorgesjules@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:23:41 +0100
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Wise Quote
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before you throw some light on the issues raised, I will like to posit that "fear" is a relevant parameter in the cosmic brew and we cannot take full responsibility for our actions as the below writer suggests.
Jesus himself said " I know my sheep and my sheep knows me. No one comes to the Father except it had been granted to him by the Father before the creation of times". Again he told his disciples " Be not happy that the spirits succumb to you but be happy that your names are written in the book of life".
It means names of some people have been written in the book of life even before the creation of time so if someone ends up in hell how can one take responsibility for such a result?.
The same bible states "It is not by the works of the hand that man is saved but by the grace of God lest man should boast for it is not granted unto a man who walks to direct his step".
The above shows clearly that we cannot fully take responsibility for our actions. Even our steps we do not direct them.
The same bible states that "The good works of man are like filthy rags in front of God".
By the very definition of God, man cannot take full responsibility for his actions. God is omnipotent and omniscient. Meaning he is all powerful and all knowing. Meaning that he knows that all the past, present and future. What he knows cannot come out wrong. He already knows that the below writer will end up in hell or heaven, will today go down in Monamousadi and slept with a university student or drink and get drunk etc. This is known even before the writer was born and what is known must come to pass. How then can the writer claim any responsibility for such action?. Cosmic smoke and shadows and delusion of choice one might say.
Just as a reminder, when God sent Moses to go and tell Pharaoh to let his people go, he again told Moses " I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go and I will stretch my hand and strike him and the world will know that I am the lord". How on earth can Pharaoh with a cosmically hardened heart be held accountable for refusing to let the Israelites go?. He cannot never take responsibility for such cosmically manipulated action , no, never.
If you ever watched Jesus Christ superstar, perhaps you will see how the issue is perfectly dramatized. As per that version of events, Jesus was being sad at the last super and said " One of you here dining, one of my 12 chosen will live to betray me". Judas relied "Cut out the dramatics you know very well who". Jesus replied "why don't you go do it, hurry they are waiting". Judas "You want me to do it?, what if I just stay here and ruin you ambitions?".
Even when Judas went to the jews to betray Jesus as per this version, he said " I haven't thought of my own reward, I did not come here of my own accord"
What Judas was basically saying is that Jesus and his father have cooked this whole thing very long time ago, and he has no choice in the matter. A sacrified pawn in a cosmic game of good and evil with father and son fighting against Lucifer and Judas chosen before he was born to play an important part designed for him by father and son. If he fails to go and betray Jesus, he will ruin the ambition of Jesus and his father. He said to the Jews, "I did not come here of my own accord so please don't say I am damned for all time". Based on this version can Judas be held take responsibility for his actions?. I think not.
(NB: The above Judas version of events is not from the standard King James version of the bible. Its just an illustration of the issue of responsibility).
On fear
I believe the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It is not a wrong translating.
God said. "I Jehovah I am a jealous God. For the iniquity of a man, I can punish up to the third generation and for the goodness of a man, I can bless up to the 100th generation". Is it not wise to fear a jealous God who can smite you out of jealousy that you perhaps recognized some other gods in competition with him for your affection?.
When Moses begged God to see his face, he replied that "No man has yet seen my face and lived". Is it not wise to fear such a being?.
The Israelites were so scared of God sometime in the past that they could not call his name. They referred to him as "He who has no name". Is it not wise to fear such a being?.
Summary
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom but the love if God is the application of wisdom (Tumasang).
NB: The biblical quotations above are not exact for I did not check the bible for the exact words but the essence is as stated in the bile.
CC: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com
From: ogeorgesjules@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:23:41 +0100
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Wise Quote
The Tip of the Burning Spear from Balue Dike,
Thank you for teaching me a completely new concept of fear. I was particularly touched by the expression,
"The love of God is the beginning of wisdom"
The previous expression was most probably a wrong translation of the meaning, for why should one fear his own father and creator? Loving one's father as the beginning of wisdom makes a lot of sense to me.
This new concept also wipes away from my mind, one of the worries I have always had with the church which turns around the notion of guilt. When we are told in church that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, I always disagree in my mind. This is because as an adult, I take full responsibility for all my actions.
What is your take on that, Rabi Esale?
Sent from my iPhone 5S
Sent from my iPhone 5S
Hello Brother JTA,Pam & I attended our nephew, Aaron's 18th. Birth-Day Party at the "Bahama Breeze" restaurant in Duluth, and we wrapped up the weekend at the Oroko-Georgia' end of month meeting in Marietta. All is well that ends well and I hope your weekend was fabulous as well.I have read your piece on FEAR and I completely understand how you feel. I have never felt the same way as you do now, because I was raised differently. Here is what I found early on in life, FEAR has no use or place in the normal life of a Christian. FEAR serves no purpose and that is where you and I part company. It simply goes to show that our experiences in this life and our orientation are different and that too is understandable. Isn't it?As far as I'm concerned, instead of talking about FEAR as a strong and unpleasant emotion caused by vain expectations or awareness of danger, I'll consider "RISK" and "Reward". For instance, why would I put my hand in a burning flame without any kind of protection? My reason for doing so or not, does not depend on the "fear" of getting burned or roasted, but rather on what I gain or lose by making the decision I choose. That is what I mean by "risk" and "reward". "Lion Heart", is the nick-name my mother gave me as a boy, and I have lived to be this young and taken all kinds of risks including being a shepherd boy in the jungles of Africa, and using common-sense, caution, prudence, faith, courage, intelligence or what have you, in my day to day activities in the jungle."Fight or flight" are two basic human instincts, and I have always preferred "fight" when the reward is greater. I do not take foolish risks. That is irresponsibility.Or, consider Jumping over a cliff as another example. My decision to jump or not to jump is governed by the "risk" and "reward" factors, than by the fear of death itself. For me as a child of God, fear has no place in my life. Yes, I am careful, cautious, prudent in my choices and actions, use the wisdom of direct and indirect experiences and/or knowledge. But FEAR as an emotion does not govern my existence, neither is it a part of the lexicon in my family. And I re-enforce this belief in bravery and courage by calling myself names such as "The Tip of the Burning Spear from Dikome Balue." I do not believe in FEAR. Like worry, fear is a useless emotion, period..........."Why "fear" something that has not happened, when all you have to do is anticipate and prepare, by being careful, prudent or taking wise action? Fear is paralyzing.As Christians, we all wear the armor of God, and the Holy Bible is our "Owner's Manual". That is the book that instructs our actions, even as imperfect as we may be, in most cases.. Our Holy book does not teach us to be afraid of anything. We are conquerors, victors or brave men and women. And although this world may not be our "home", we have a right to be here."Fear NOT, for I AM with you always," says the Lord our God.So please JTA, let us agree to disagree and avoid using words such as "fool" or "stupid" in our conversation. They cause vexation to a peaceful spirit.Sir, kindly accept my unconditional LOVE.Your little finger, I mean little broda,SamOn Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 4:53 PM, James Ashu <jamesashu@yahoo.com> wrote:Hello Broda SAM,
Interpretations of the bible should be left with biblical scholars. Anybody who is oblivious to danger a particular situation poses, would not be able to build defenses against such a situation. For instance, if one is oblivious to the danger a naked flame poses to an exposed hand, he or she would stupidly put his or her hand into that flame. Doing so without looking for a way to protect the hand, is a demonstration of gross stupidity. That is what is sometimes called "the boldness of an ant." In fact, fear is a basic instinct in all normal people. It is this instinct that motivates intelligent individuals to build defenses to confront certain situations. Please, do not confuse fear with cowardice. One person may be afraid of a certain situation, but still decide to confront it. Such a person is brave, if he or she is equipped to face that situation. If he or she is not adequately equipped to face the situation, but decides to so, regardless, he or she
is a fool.
I would caution you to be ware of great speech makers during conflicts. During conflicts the foolish ones are deceived to sacrifice for the general good. Such fools sacrifice their lives while the real cowards survive and claim victory. Look around you and you will realize that in war, it is always poor people's children who sacrifice. Most rich people are too clever to send their children to war. If the rich and powerful even send their children to the military, such children are always in the officer corps where casualties are very low. So, my brother SAM, fear is a basic human instinct. It only depends on whether one recognizes it in a given situation and arms himself or herself against it.Date: Sunday, October 27, 2013, 5:02 PM
JTA
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/27/13, SAM ESALE <invictusam.leadershipro@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Wise Quote
To: "camnetwork" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>
Brother
JTA, Good Evening. Hope the family is
well. Church was great today. Bro,
"The only FEAR to be afraid of is FEAR itself".
JFK.
Please, let us not confuse "FEAR" with
caution, prudence, carefulness or even wisdom and
understanding. FEAR is not a useful emotion, period. And
don't try to spin it or say
otherwise.
I also beg to differ with my friend Dr. Bessong's
take on the mistranslate and rather out dated
"biblical" usage of FEAR in the following
quotation; "The FEAR of God is
the beginning of wisdom." That is an inaccurate
translation and/or interpretation from Hebrew or Greek into
English.
Yes, our God is an awesome God. He is
omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. He is also a loving
and caring God who does not desire his creation to be
afraid. The real translation ought to
read as follows;
"The LOVE of God is the beginning of
all evil." It is only slightly
cultural that children have to be afraid of their father or
mother, for that matter, when all they have to do is show
love and all else will fall in place. It is a fallacy that
"FEAR" is useful in any way, because it isn't.
Caution, Prudence, Faith and above all, LOVE, will all trump
over FEAR anytime, anywhere. Therefore, Gandhi was
understandably wrong.
And you do not pass exams because you are
afraid. You do so because you prepare. Fear does not
motivate, it discourages and dissipates your energy to make
you weak. Courage is the opposite of Fear, with a completely
opposite effect. With faith and courage even Dr. Bessong can
say to Mt. Cameroon "Move" and it will move. Fear
can't do that.
To put things in perspective, Mahatma
Gandhi lived in a society where slavery and the caste system
were the order of the day. India was and perhaps still is a
very segregated society or they practice a "caste
system". Under such circumstances, FEAR has a place in
the minds of members of the system as a weapon of
subjugation, intimidation, extortion or "mass
psychological destruction". Each "class"
sought or still seeks to dominate the other by the use of
"fear" generating techniques. The British colonial
administration in India at the time also used
"fear" as a weapon garner
"obedience". Gandhi had to be
"fearless" or purge "FEAR" out of his
system by using the now famous "non-violence"
approach to "rebellion". That was caution or
prudence or faith. That is why his very own statement
contradicts his attitude towards the British. Gandhi did NOT
fear the British.
Big brother JTA, there is nothing to be
afraid of but FEAR itself. Just be as wise as the serpent or
as hardworking as the ant and you will be fine. You have the
right to be here. "Though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall FEAR no
evil. For thou art with me, thy rod and thy staff , they
comfort me. Thou prepares a table before me, in the presence
of mine enemies. Thou anointed my head with oil, may cup
runs over. Surely, goodness and mercy shall follow me, all
the days of my life. And I'll dwell in the house of the
Lord, forever and ever, Amen."
So, I demand of you my brethren and
sisters, from today on FEAR NOT. But be wise, cautious,
prudent, faithful and above all, LOVE your neighbor as you
LOVE yourself. TRUST in the Lord your God. HE is the creator
of the Heavens and the Earth and HE will protect and guide
you.
Sincerely, Sam
Esale (Christian).
On Sun, Oct 27, 2013
at 11:10 AM, James Ashu <jamesashu@yahoo.com>
wrote:
He who does not fear anything is a fool.
JTA
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/27/13, SAM ESALE <invictusam.leadershipro@gmail.com>
wrote:
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Wise Quote
To: "camnetwork" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, October 27, 2013, 9:40 AM
Jax, Good
Morning Bro. Perhaps, Gandhi was
wrong after all, for FEAR has no use. Gandhi may
have smoked too much "Indian Hemp" when he made
that statement.
FEAR could be interpreted as False
Enemies Appearing Real, born of lonesome
imagination. Most FEARS are born out
of loneliness and worry, and worry itself is a wasted
emotion.
Fear of height, fear of death, fear of poverty, fear of
disaster, fear of rejection,
etc. This is modern psychological
thinking. Replace FEAR with FAITH,
CAUTION or PRUDENCE and you'll get it right
always.
"You are a child of this universe and
my creation, no lesser than the lilies nor the sky. You
have
a right to be HERE. And though you walk through the valley
of the shadow of death, thou shall FEAR nor evil. My rod
and my staff will protect and comfort you;" Thus
sayeth
the Lord my GOD.
I'm off to Church for inspiration.
Jax, have a great
Sunday. Love,Sam
On Sun, Oct 27, 2013
at 4:27 AM, Mot'a Bema <jacksonnanje@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Fear has its use but cowardice
has none.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
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