Prince Nyenty,
Victor makes the observation that framing the problem as Anglophone versus Francophone makes it narrowly look like speakers of English versus speakers of French. He thinks that fails to capture the understanding of persons of the Southern Cameroons origin who are similarly affected but do not speak English.
The Igbo scare as factored into the plebiscite and had contributed to the determination to pull out of the Nigerian Eastern House of Assembly was never framed in terms of the Southern Cameroons Anglophones versus the Eastern Nigerian Anglophones. Victor thinks the problem should be framed in a simple but more encompassing term as was understood by Fon Achinimbi of Bafut on the eve of the plebiscite. Given the Igbo experience, the Fon on the basis "geopolitics" saw the two alternatives as the choice between death by fire and death by drowning. In a sense, the Igbos saw the people of the Southern Cameroons as persons of a geopolitical entity in relation to themselves. The Fon did not see how that will change in the choice of independence by joining an already independent Nigeria. The Fon also foresaw a repeat of same in the choice of joining an already independent La Republique du Cameroun.
Victor's suggestion on avoiding the problem of narrowing understanding to linguistic differences (speakers of English versus speakers of French), the problem should be "geopolitically" framed in terms of the people of the Southern Cameroons versus the people of La Republique du Cameroun. He sees the problem as rooted and legally backed much more in the framing by geopolitical differences than in a framing as is likely to narrow it to linguistic differences (the linguistic is a sub text of the geopolitical). Find reasons to understand him and give him reasons to understand without being over assuming and dismissive.
NDI MANJONG.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
From: princenyenty@yahoo.co.uk
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:23:48 +0000
To: <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: ambasbay@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
Nyenty
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From: Mishe Fon <mishefon@yahoo.com>
Sender: ambasbay@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 19:05:26 -0800 (PST)
To: camnetwork@yahoogroups.com<camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com<cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; ambasbay@googlegroups.com<ambasbay@googlegroups.com>; Cameroonpatriots@yahoogroups.com<Cameroonpatriots@yahoogroups.com>; Camreview@yahoogroups.com<Camreview@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: ambasbay@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
Look at me this man. So you think if I have a serious problem, I will be using nonentities like Awasom as a yardstick to guage outcomes. Awasom is capable of starting a sentence with a "No" only to end up (without realizing his prior stands) with a "Yes". Not all anglophones of Southern Cameroons, especially the younger generation, understand the "Fight" that is ongoing and as such may not contribute in the debate. I will not rephrase the terminolgy to please the Vic Kattes of this world. There is an "Anglophone problem" in Cameroon. Last but the least, being a word-smith does not make an automatic grade A grammar student. I have never claimed any such authority and will never arrogate bombastic claims to myself or fall victim to your facinorous incantations...that "my arguments suffer from being worded imprecisely". For your info; that is my style of communication. Take it or leave it. So Vic, do not take the infantile gesticulations of the Awasoms of this world as a yardstick for Political anything. You make me lose the small respect I had for you.
From: Vic Katte <vickatte@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>; cameroon politics <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "Cameroonpatriots@yahoogroups.com" <Cameroonpatriots@yahoogroups.com>; CAMNETWORK <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "Camreview@yahoogroups.com" <Camreview@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
To: "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>; cameroon politics <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "Cameroonpatriots@yahoogroups.com" <Cameroonpatriots@yahoogroups.com>; CAMNETWORK <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "Camreview@yahoogroups.com" <Camreview@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
Mishe,
I have known you on this forum for about 5 years now and have noticed that most of your arguments suffer from being worded imprecisely and very vaguely, your claim of wordsmithness notwithstanding.
If you say there is an "Anglophone Problem" in Cameroon today, I would find it hard to agree with you, on the whole. However, if you said there was a problem with the legitimacy of the state of Cameroon today, I would say Yes, most definitely. Further still, if you said there is a legitimate claim and desire for the people of the erstwhile Southern Cameroonian territory for self-determination and independence/autonomy, I would say YES. Now, how is that for precision in capturing the problem?
Why do you wish to lump me with my Kontri people? Are there not thousands of your kontri people who do not see the problem?
I have known you on this forum for about 5 years now and have noticed that most of your arguments suffer from being worded imprecisely and very vaguely, your claim of wordsmithness notwithstanding.
If you say there is an "Anglophone Problem" in Cameroon today, I would find it hard to agree with you, on the whole. However, if you said there was a problem with the legitimacy of the state of Cameroon today, I would say Yes, most definitely. Further still, if you said there is a legitimate claim and desire for the people of the erstwhile Southern Cameroonian territory for self-determination and independence/autonomy, I would say YES. Now, how is that for precision in capturing the problem?
Why do you wish to lump me with my Kontri people? Are there not thousands of your kontri people who do not see the problem?
Vic Katte"Easy is the road that leads to benightedness, superstitions and irrationalism". Victor Katte=============================================================="The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge." MenckenEmancipate yourself from mental slavery - none but yourself can free your mind."Most people would rather die than think. And most people do" Bertrand Russell.
From: Mishe Fon <mishefon@yahoo.com>
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2012, 1:57
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2012, 1:57
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
I think the sentence is written in plain straight forward English and means exactly what you understand it to mean. If you want to play semantics with me, I will tell you upfront that I am a "word-smith" whose grandiloquence is moderated and tempered only by atmospheric circumstances. Now back to the topic. Simply answer the basic question as it is posed. Your peers are your "kontri" people who are the first to dismiss the above question as of no relevance. I simply wanted to give you an opportunity to come clean with clear cut answers. Period.
From: Vic Katte <vickatte@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
Mishe Fon,
Firstly, of all you have got to define what you mean by the term "The Anglophone Problem". Secondly, who do you mean by "my peers"? Just a quick reminder - I don't speak for anyone or any political movement. I speak for myself through the prism of what looks reasonable.
Firstly, of all you have got to define what you mean by the term "The Anglophone Problem". Secondly, who do you mean by "my peers"? Just a quick reminder - I don't speak for anyone or any political movement. I speak for myself through the prism of what looks reasonable.
Vic Katte"Easy is the road that leads to benightedness, superstitions and irrationalism". Victor Katte=============================================================="The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge." MenckenEmancipate yourself from mental slavery - none but yourself can free your mind."Most people would rather die than think. And most people do" Bertrand Russell.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY5FcCQ8BIghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4YrvDslraw&NR=1
From: Mishe Fon <mishefon@yahoo.com>
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2012, 1:38
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
To: "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 30 December 2012, 1:38
Subject: Re: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
Do you or your peers acknowledge the existence of an "Anglophone Problem" in Cameroon? We can start from there.
From: Vic Katte <vickatte@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:39 PM
Subject: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
To: "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:39 PM
Subject: [camnetwork] Re: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
Mishe Fon,
What would you consider as a satisfactory solution to the so-called "Anglophone Problem"?
What would you consider as a satisfactory solution to the so-called "Anglophone Problem"?
Vic Katte"Easy is the road that leads to benightedness, superstitions and irrationalism". Victor Katte=============================================================="The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge." MenckenEmancipate yourself from mental slavery - none but yourself can free your mind."Most people would rather die than think. And most people do" Bertrand Russell.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY5FcCQ8BIghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4YrvDslraw&NR=1
From: Mishe Fon <mishefon@yahoo.com>
To: "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 21:51
Subject: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
To: "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>; "camnetwork@yahoogroups.com" <camnetwork@yahoogroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 21:51
Subject: [cameroon_politics] Re: Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
If the Kamto you guys are desperately trying to project and promote as the "3rd way emerging, probably which is the direction Pr. Kamto is heading" so why bother about the "the idiotic and embecillic John Fru Ndi and his Social Idiocratic Cult being too benighted, backward and corrupted to have a vision beyond their noses. ."(Victorine Kattie Kattie)
Why would the dreaded CPDM Maffiosi not constantly smile its way to the Banks when you have a band of paristocratic (yes regional) Internet hate mongers with a rather strange but twisted and obsessed dacnomanic aversion towards the SDF, its leader and by some strange but obvious proportions "Southern Cameroonians". YES, it is very easy to see the linkage. Look at the list of those who are vehemently opposed to any discusions about S/C. Truth is the RDPC is the main source of our woes in Cameroon. The RDPC is the real "Enemie dans la maison". The SDF to the best of my knowledge has NEVER been in power (all its own short comings not withstanding) BUT this recurrent, systematic and bibliomanic bashing and even "Hatred" of the SDF (one out of almost 250 Parties in Cameroon) is nothing but a kainotophobic display of "Moutum Banzaness" bodering on witch-hunting and foolish village pride.
What this tells us is that; this is an obvious and tacid recognition that ANGLOPHONES (S/C) are a force to reckon with but they should remain subjugated to the second class citizens they have been relegated to. The other day, I mentioned how the Bassas have not only bled us dry in Limbe but here we are today with this other one outrightly flaunting and daring us. For how long is this going to be tolerated?
If that your Kamto is that good; why doesn,t he organize his people.
If the SDF is that bad; why not simply ignore them and do your thing the Francophone way.
If as you claim, that your Kamto is the third way; which was the second or first way?
Please, my dear friends, there is absolutely nothing wrong in promoting "Le Frere du Village" but never forget who the enemy of the Cameroon people is: Its Government. PERIOD.
N.B: OK, so you guys want Anglophone support for your political ambitions? Right? No problem. We will support you. Only on one condition.
Let us start by discussing on a Level playing field, that small business called: THE ANGLOPHONE PROBLEM IN CAMEROON.
Un Point Un Trait.
In conclusion: Joining forces has a lot of advantages BUT the down side is : Who are you joining Forces with and for what Goals or Achievable objectives? You don,t want to find yourself in that proverbial situation of "From Frying Pan To Fire".
Mishe Fon
From: Vic Katte <vickatte@yahoo.co.uk>
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Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 1:18 PM
Subject: [cameroon_politics] Re: [globalcameroun] Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
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Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 1:18 PM
Subject: [cameroon_politics] Re: [globalcameroun] Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
Hello, Rather, the opposition should build that coalition before the coming elections. Tell me why this is not achievable before we can even start to talk about boycotting elections. Boycott only has effect in a state where the system cares about its legitimacy and constitutionality. For a system like Biya's that does not give a fuck about such ideals, boycott only plays into his hands. Given the state of the opposition fields at the moment, there is no way any single opposition party could kick CPDM out of power - no way whatsoever - it is far too entrenched and embedded and it has the machinery of the government/civil service behind it. No single party could even so much as scratch CPDM in places where it matters. The only way to fight CPDM is for a coalition of opposition parties to join forces and stand as united in opposition to Biya. That would make them quake in their boots. One of the biggest obstacle to such a coalition is the idiotic and embecillic John Fru Ndi and his Social Idiocratic Cult. My hope is that a 3rd way might emerge, probably in the direction in which Kamto is heading, but I do not see Fru Ndi and his Social Idiocratic Cult being part of any meaning coalition - they are too benighted, backward and corrupted to have a vision beyond their noses.
Vic Katte"Easy is the road that leads to benightedness, superstitions and irrationalism". Victor Katte=============================================================="The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge." MenckenEmancipate yourself from mental slavery - none but yourself can free your mind."Most people would rather die than think. And most people do" Bertrand Russell.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY5FcCQ8BIghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4YrvDslraw&NR=1
From: Howard Njeck <africmove@yahoo.com>
To: africmove@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 17:59
Subject: [globalcameroun] Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
To: africmove@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 17:59
Subject: [globalcameroun] Cameroonian should join force in 2013 in ending CPDM Dynasty
Cameroon in gradually leading into another Congo Democratic, Ivory Caost, Libiya or Mali. If we don't join forces in ending the 30 years of Biya tyranny Cameroon is heading towards civil strife. The opposion in Cameroon should boycott the 2013 twin elections and lets build the coalition needed to end the the 30 years of tyranny in Cameroon. Cameroonian elites are invited to participate massively in designing the final reform package.. Stay tune for our new year message. Njeck Howard
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