Wanaku,
Let me repeat myself.
1. Homosexuality is a sin, not an illness.
2. Homosexuality is not a human right. God made man and Woman not God made Homosexual. He made man and woman for one purpose – pro-creation!
3. Homosexuality is a choice The first definition is found in the book of Leviticus, when God gives commandments concerning correct sexual behavior of a person and He defines the perversions everyone has to keep himself clear of. Here is what the Creator says: You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. (Leveticus 18:22)
4. Homosexuality is a learnt practice. At the end of the same chapter, God makes a summary of all perversions that he bans people, His creation to practice and He says: But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); so that the land will not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. 'For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people. Thus you are to keep My charge, that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you, so as not to defile yourselves with them; I am the LORD your God.
5. Homosexuality is a degrading passion. God adds to the definition of what is called untraditional sexual orientation" nowadays, in the Epistle of Paul to Romans. Here is what the Word of God says: For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. (Romans 1:26–27
The Role of the Satanists-the Illuminati-the World Bank and the West. Listen, the Lord God put BELIEF, not in the yes or the ears but in the heart of MEN. I have been harping on these things but EXAMINE your hears, my friends, you will discover that the Lord God foreknew you and predestinated and called and justified and glorified you to be conformed to the teachings of his Son, Jesus Christ and to himself. Reason wWanaku,
You write...'Mr Ofege, you seem to have a problem with everyone –even the Pope'
Wow!
How you manage to construct that I have a 'problem with everybody' because I am teaching what is actually in the Bible about homosexuality is bewildering.
Bewildering because the WORD of the Lord God on this specific topic is clear and bodes no ambiguity, no dark zone, no darkness and no double-talk.
When people – a Pope – start creating dark areas with the WORD of God that is so simply spelt out in the Bible, I worry. I hold them to higher standards because then they are giving room for Man to falter and continue living in SIN.
Do you see how many people –especially our Resident Crusader for a Science fiction called GAY RIGHTS alias Mr. Boh Herbert – now construct the Pope's sentence as a license to continue living in SIN.
Not for himself – the bloody hypocrite – but for some others!
Why would a man CRUSADE for OTHER PEOPLE TO LIVE IN SIN?
So that the Lord God will damn them while sparing him?
Lie, Lie to Lie-Lie.
The things that cause Sin are bound to come but WOE betides him through whom those things come !
Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come.
Mr. Pope ought to know this as well.
As well as this: MANY STRIPES for the POPE!
For this SERVANT of the Lord God KNOWS the Lord's WILL and does not Do according to the Lord's Will and to him that much is given; much shall be required of him!
Luke 12:46-48 King James Version (KJV)
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
I do not believe in Papal INFALLIBILITY. God is INFALLIBLE, not man.
I underline it to you that Christianity is not a RELIGION but it is a RELATIONSHIP between the Man and his God and the only way the Man know the Lord God is by his WORD and through his WORD because then God is HIS WORD. In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with god and the WORD was God.
God is his word.
And I CHANGETH NOT, the Man says himself!
The man who yells: What the POPE SAY...should rather be worried that he has not seen or would not see: WHAT the LORD GOS says in his WORD the BIBLE.
I am interested in the infallibility of the WORD of GOD, not in PAPAL INFALLIBILITY: Not in the infallibility of the doctrine of a church because then we know or we ought to know better.
In case you are not aware consider the spread of THIS THING in the Roman Catholic Church and why it is so. Why do priests sodomize unfortunate little boys: Is it because of SIN, because they have Sin in them or because they have opened the way for SIN to be in them? Consider the Word of god as per IDOLATORY – See Exodus 20-1-5 and Romans 1-18-32 and the thing becomes clear.
You call me a 'self-righteous preacher', do you?
You err.
The Bible is SELF-RIGHTEOUS; the book says so of itself. Why fault A MESSENGER who is just showing us what is written: Blame the Bible!
Do note the light-hearted spirit with which that specific post was written despite the gravity of the issue. I am a Bible scholar and I draw my inspiration from My Education in and TEACHINGS thereof of the Bible topics that I deal with.
Once more, I am not talking RELIGION or a specific Religious Organization or Organized Religion: I am talking Bible, the WORD of God, what is WRITTEN, not what a MAN or a group of MEN SAY.
Take time off to read what is ACTUALLY IN THE BIBLE: You will be surprise on how many WRONG THINGS YOU HAVE BELIEVED!
For those desirous of a CONVERSATION on Bible issues meet me at:
https://www.facebook.com/prayerpointpowerpoint
This is the Main Portal of my Worldwide Ministry with circa 3000 people present from all over the world. I do hold regular teachings exhortation, edification and comfort sessions: that you may also be HEWN by the Prophet.
...On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 12:58 PM, john ntam <jkmukong@yahoo.com> wrote:
To the best of my understanding, the Pope did not make things clear on this issue, if were the Pope I would have told the whole world to say NO TO HOMOSEXUALITY PRACTICES. He would have let Christians know that it is a sin or not a sin. Pope Benedict never wanted to comment on this issue, some people think that it was the main reason that triggered him to resignKfutua
From: Emmanuel Yem <nsomgwe74@yahoo.co.uk>
To: AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com; AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com; boyo@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 12:10 AM
Subject: [BOYO] Re: [AFOaKOM] Re: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'
Iboisi
From: JAMES CHUYUM <jchuyum@yahoo.com>;
To: AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com <AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com>; boyo@yahoogroups.com <boyo@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [AFOaKOM] Re: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'
Sent: Wed, Jul 31, 2013 3:53:07 AM
To: "AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com" <AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [AFOaKOM] Re: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'chf
Bobe Yongabi,The Pope did not certainly say, as a certain now retired archbishop of Yaounde said (with your support), that homosexuality is a crime against humanity and the Pope will not do, as some have on this forum, rejoice in the murder of someone who campaigned for gay rights.The Pope does his job by citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church as the basis for his teaching and the media does its job by relying on the practice of journalism that allows journalists to comment, interpret and editorialize on any position taken by the Pope or anyone else in the news. How is the media wrong? Who else in the news gets treated differently? Who else in the news gets carried verbatim on all media outlets?Boh HerbertFrom: ngalim bernard yongabi <ngalimben@yahoo.ca>
To: "AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com" <AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [AFOaKOM] Re: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'
Dear All,At times it is very easy to be derailed. The point of focus is what the Pope said and not what the media said he said. It is better to quote verbatim what the Pope said. Fr. Ignatius has reproduced the Pope's discussion with the media here under. It is important that we stop saying what the Pope has not said. The Pope has not moved away from the teachings of the Church. This is what the Pope said:A gay person who is seeking God, who is of good will—well, who am I to judge him? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says one must not marginalize these persons, they must be integrated into society. The problem isn't this [homosexual] orientation—we must be like brothers and sisters. The problem is something else, the problem is lobbying either for this orientation or a political lobby or a Masonic lobby.Dear people, let us be honest to ourselves by giving complete information. It is really absurd we use the first 2 words of a sentence to describe a complete article. Once more, the Pope hasn't gone out of the Church's teaching on this issue. Kindly take note of his reference to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.Please, don't be fooled by the press and the lobbies the pope is condemning.By little token
NBYFrom: Ignatius Waindim <iwaindim@yahoo.co.uk>
To: "AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com" <AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 2:53:52 AM
Subject: Re: [AFOaKOM] Re: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'
Dear everybody, Would the following be a useful contribution to the debate? It consists of what actually happened on the Pope's return trip to Rome: "ABOARD THE PAPAL AIRCRAFT — Pope Francis reached out to gays on Monday, 29 July, saying he wouldn't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference as he returned from his first foreign trip."If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked.His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.Francis' remarks came Monday during a plane journey back to the Vatican from his first foreign trip in Brazil.He was funny and candid during a news conference that lasted almost an hour and a half. He didn't dodge a single question, even thanking the journalist who raised allegations reported by an Italian newsmagazine that one of his trusted monsignors was involved in a scandalous gay tryst.Francis said he investigated and found nothing to back up the allegations.Francis was asked about Italian media reports suggesting that a group within the church tried to blackmail fellow church officials with evidence of their homosexual activities. Italian media reported this year that the allegations contributed to Benedict's decision to resignWhile stressing Catholic social teaching that calls for homosexuals to be treated with dignity and not marginalized, Francis said it was something else entirely to conspire to use private information for blackmail or to exert pressure.Francis was responding to reports that a trusted aide was involved in an alleged gay tryst a decade ago. He said he investigated the allegations according to canon law and found nothing to back them up. But he took journalists to task for reporting on the matter, saying the allegations concerned matters of sin, not crimes like sexually abusing children.And when someone sins and confesses, he said, God not only forgives but forgets."We don't have the right to not forget," he said."Let us note that concerning homosexuality, the Pope talked about "orientation". He was not talking about active gay fornication, or the so-called gay marriage. Yet sin, when recognized and humbly confessed with the resolve not to sin again, can be forgiven. This resolve includes avoiding future occasions of sin. And when God forgives, he forgets. It requires profound formation to recognize what is SIN and what is not. A person of good will who seeks the Lord tries to avoid sin - whether that person is gay or straight.What is Pope Francis' stand about sinning gays? Consider the following:"Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, a 76-year-old Argentinean, was chosen as the first Latin American pope on Wednesday. He will lead the world's 1.2 billion Catholics as Pope Francis. While his selection may be historic, it may also mean more of the same when it comes to gay rights in the Catholic Church.Pope Francis is a conservative who is anti-gay marriage and anti-gay adoption. He has described same-sex marriage as the work of the devil and a "destructive attack on God's plan." He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children.In 2010, Francis championed against a bill for same-sex marriage and gay adoption, according to the National Catholic Register."[T]he Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family," he wrote to the four monasteries in Argentina. "At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God's law engraved in our hearts."He went on to describe it as a "'move' of the Father of Lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God" and asked for lawmakers to "not act in error." In John 8:44, the Father of Lies is the devil.Argentina approved same-sex marriage in 2010, making it the first Latin American country to legalize the union, the New York Times previously reported. The country is also progressive when it comes to contraception. President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner has promoted free contraception and artificial insemination, the Associated Press notes. In the past, Francis has clashed with the Argentinean government over his stance on these issues."Pope Francis is against SIN, not against people who are genuinely trying, in spite of their "orientation" to avoid sin and please God by their lives.Fiyinifi boisiSalah
From: Wanaku <wanaku@kompeople.org>
To: AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013, 17:04
Subject: Re: [AFOaKOM] Re: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'
Mr. Ofege If I am reading you right then it seems your rhetoric sounds like that of a self-righteous preacher. Is it? Then I have no questions. That must be the job you have been ordained to do. If not pardon my misread of your text. Speaking of (you called it: "Wanaku ... own kind of hunger")
hunger, I am not sure where "hunger" came from,
but I will repeat (again) - the goal is to discuss ways to create a sustainable
Food, Shelter, Clothing + Literacy (in any language, including itanghiKom)
strategy for Kom Kingdom.
I do not know how to make it sound simpler than it is already.
Once again it is a suggested discussion scope.
I hope that does not prevent you from your good work.
I will also suggest creating an online space where you can do some
more of that kind of work uninhibited by our modest efforts to resolve other
kinds of (to use your word) "hunger".
~wv
On 7/30/2013 9:44 AM, Ofege Ntemfac wrote:Wanaku wants us to talk his own kind of hunger whereas We HUNGER and THIRST FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. This I know: Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and his Righteousness and the OTHERS WILL BE ADDED UNTO THEE - pressed down, shaken together and running over shall MEN GIVE UNTO THEE.That is not my style.I will not sound condescending to anyone.Not me.Bo Chia Nkwain,No
Hey we are on the same side.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Ofege Ntemfac <ntemfacnchwete@gmail.com> wrote:I will show you shortly why you have absolutely no clue regading the stakes of this issue.Where angels fear to tread......I am afraid that, once again, your dross is showing.
Dear Mr Boh,
Let me repeat myself for whatsoever it is worth.
Satanists – in the order of their Father, the devil – speak in half-gospels; ambiguous and misleading terms so that mankind should get the wrong message and perish. At the Temptation of Jesus, Satan spoke in half-gospels; ambiguous and misleading terms.
Let me show you something:
The Lord God himself says in Leviticus 18:22. Thou shall not practice homosexuality, it is an abominable sin.
A GAY is one who practises HOMOSEXUALITY.
And the Lord God in Romans 1:26-32 declares that being GAY is a package wherein the GAY is also..filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: unsociable.See how ridiculous you are - inane too, I might add. How can you possibly be all of the above and be none of the above?
How can you be practising SIN and be accepted by God?The double-speak of the possessed.
As if, we should ask PIGS to come into our parlours and have a seat. You see, God loves MAN but God hates Sin.
SIN is anything that is CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD. And the specific Sin of homosexuality is regimented by the Lord God himself.On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:07 AM, Herbert Boh <herbertboh@yahoo.com> wrote:And the Pope has spoken! Long live the Pope!
Boh Herbert
Sent from my iPhoneOn Jul 29, 2013, at 9:23 PM, nkwain chia <nkwain@yahoo.com> wrote:Greetings to all out there. I must say it beats my understanding to see the vehemence with which some of us advocate evasiveness towards a topic of such social, moral and spiritual relevance. I could not be 'prouder', so to speak, to follow Bobe Ntam's line of reasoning. The Kom tribe may be ridden with poverty, yes, but I am afraid Bobe Ofege and Wanaku sound too condescending to me when they seem to reduce us to some wretched upland savages who should be so carried away by the age-old issues of hunger, shelter and diseases that current issues should not be any of our business. Even if that were to be the case, then as Bobe Ntam logically puts it, addressing this topic does not entail evading any other topics. By the way, is homosexuality really that much of a distant reality to us as Kom people? If you think it may still have to take a few more years to invade the very depths of our fondom, you may be right but what about the millions of our other brothers and sisters living in the diaspora and the poor children (future leaders of Kom) being born there even as we speak. Or should this forum discuss only issues that have to do with my hungry mother or brother who live at Ameng village or Advuk?May we all stay blessedChia Nkwain
From: Wanaku
To: AFOaKOM@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 9:03 PM
Subject: [AFOaKOM] Re: Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'
Bobe, You are right about quoting (referencing others) when publishing scientific work. If I talked about "writing our (not 'my') own book", I am referring to "us" as a community "writing our own book", which (if my communication is any good at this point) implies "helping ourselves" as opposed to waiting for some other entity to do it for us. I think we slid out of topic again. Probably my fault. We should focus here on helping our people in solving/resolving the perennial problems of: Food, Shelter, Clothing + Literacy. There is enough in these areas to keep us busy for a very long time. And this does not prevent anyone from doing diligence to their personal beliefs. Thanks for your kind feedback. iBois+ ~wv --- In mailto:AFOaKOM%40yahoogroups.com, challow ntam wrote: > > Bobe Wanaku, > > well not as easy as you think. So many students,at the level of Masters > even,still can't quote as easily as you think. Find out. Before one > publishes a scientific work, he does some research on that area , makes > references to earlier publications, then goes ahead to reveal his research > and leaves it open,and everything that happened before is a foundation, > anything after,would only add up to what has been done. If you can't quote > others,and think you want to write your own book, don't expect someone else > to read your work,let alone quoting your work. Well if you want to write > your own book and feel happy about no one quoting you, then good for you. > After all what is wrong in speaking to yourself? > > Ntam > > > > > On 29 July 2013 21:31, Wanaku wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Bobe Challow, > > > > First thing I want to say is: there is (and cannot be) censorship on here > > simply because it does not make sense. > > Secondly, the quote you use can be discussed and parsed in several > > different ways: > > > > "Man shall not live on bread alone" > > Really? I am not sure discussing/parsing this quote will help anyone. So I > > will let it slide. > > > > I will keep saying that our focus here should be (and this is not forcing > > anyone - just a suggestion) > > How to keep Kom on the road to a sustainable Food, Shelter, Clothing and > > Literacy future. > > > > It is not an easy thing to do (or talk about). > > That might explain why few would like to talk about (discuss) those > > subjects. > > It is easy to quote from a book - it is written already. > > What I am suggesting is for us to write our own book. > > That's a more challenging proposal. > > > > iBois+ > > ~wv > > > > > > > > On 7/29/2013 2:13 PM, challow ntam wrote: > > > > > > Bobe Wanaku, > > > > "Man shall not live on bread alone". With food,shelter and the best > > means of moving from point A to point B,if you do not have a sound mind,in > > a sound body, (good health), you are not getting anywhere. One of your > > favorite sayings has always been " If you do not let some one speak,how > > would you know what is in their minds"? You have realized that this > > topic.like some others has been around for a while. This is what the people > > have decided to talk about for now. If I was a betting man, I'd put all I > > have, that no one has stopped looking for food and shelter because of the > > discussion we have here, no one has gone to bed hungry,because papa and > > mama spent time on this topic. No better idea,that could give us more > > grains and vegetables has been relegated to the background. I respect your > > opinion about bringing an end to this topic,but I completely disagree with > > it in any shape and form because no matter how u present it, it looks (to > > me),like censorship. > > > > Ntam > > > > > > On 29 July 2013 20:38, Wanaku wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Bobe Ofege, > >> I thought the Pope had closed this discussion > >> but it seems he has just poured kerosene on it. > >> I am not sure what each person's goal is > >> spending time/resources on this topic. > >> I guess there is something about it (more than other topics like Food, > >> Shelter, Clothing, Literacy) > >> that makes a human go: "Mmh! I have to say something > >> about this". And they do. > >> > >> Again, if you ask me, in our context (that of Kom) > >> I think that we have more pressing issues to talk about > >> and do, than trying to fix an issue that most are > >> bothered about and few have any real solution for. > >> > >> On the other hand, some societies (or contexts) that > >> have solved(or resolved) some basic human problems, > >> now have ample time to discuss/debate/argue about > >> whether a human should behave one way or the other. > >> > >> Given that we have so much work to do in our communities > >> I am not sure we can afford the time to sit around and > >> wonder what x and y are involved in some deviant behaviour or not. > >> Again it is like discussing strategies of how to catch > >> fish, when we do not even have water to drink. > >> > >> Kom needs sustainable solutions for the following: > >> Food, Shelter, Clothing and a robust revival of 100% Literacy for ALL. > >> > >> That is how we can move our people from point A to B > >> whether they pray to Buddha, Jesus, Mohamed or Tangnankoli. > >> ALL of them need Food, Shelter, Clothing and the ability > >> of READ/WRITE (in any language they choose: itanghiKom preferably). > >> > >> We should discuss about these issues and how to make them become real in > >> our communities rather than trying to catch fireflies thrown into the > >> global town square by the western media. It is a smart topic to distract > >> (and take a lot of productive time) away from issues that are burning at > >> our feet to solve - burning more than the jiggers in our kids classrooms in > >> some of our primary schools. > >> > >> Bobe Ofege, if you ask me I'd say (again in our context), the best way to > >> preach (gospel, koran, bhagavad gita etc) is to DO. We need more doing on > >> the ground for our people than all the alleluia/amen/lord this lord > >> that/prophet here prohet there etc ... But then I may be wrong because some > >> humans - at given stages in their lives - might need a given style of > >> preaching to save themselves (from themselves). So like I said here, it is > >> just my opinion. The trick for every preacher is to find those who can > >> listen (not just those who have ears). > >> > >> Any preacher who has solutions for my people (Kom), I am all ears. > >> Anything else is a waste of valuable time. Again, just my opinion. > >> > >> iBois+ > >> ~wv > >> > >> > >> --- In mailto:AFOaKOM%40yahoogroups.com, Ofege Ntemfac wrote: > >> > > >> > Wanaku, > >> > I just made this Post to Chief Taku. > >> > You may find it stimulating > >> > > >> > The Chief, > >> > The issue cannot be Judging PEOPLE because Romans 2 and Romans 14 > >> > specifically proscribe the Christian from JUDGING ANYONE. > >> > All have sinned and come short of the GLORY OF GOD. > >> > The issue is this bewildering celebration of WHAT GOD condemns so much > >> > so that a man told me in these set of chambers that THE WORLD WILL NOT > >> > BE RULED BY THE BIBLE! > >> > The issue
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