Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

Just a few thoughts on this debate on academicians and industry experienced faculty.

In the second book published by MTC Global, the faculty have been classified to understand the training needs for faculty development.  It makes a point that different individuals who join as faculty in a business school equipped with certain skills have a need to acquire some complimentary skills to become a better faculty. 

The industry experienced faculty have practical understanding of the job and the challenges which a student needs to learn to start working from day one.  However, they may not necessarily possess the skills of mentoring, evaluation, course design, etc to ensure that the students learn the required concepts and applications of a course in a given time period of 45 sessions. 

The academician trained as a teacher is equipped with the skills missing in the industry experienced faculty and needs to learn the working of a "shop floor"  This lack of experience is often overcome through the use of case studies and guest lectures by industry experts.  The summer internships of the students are also a source of learning about the industry although vicariously. 

The best of the institutions maintain a blend of teachers - industry experienced and academically trained.  The academically trained learn about industry challenges through funded projects carried out by faculty groups and the industry experienced faculty learn academic process as they design and deliver their courses to students.  Regular methodology workshop on teaching and research help in this purpose. 

The debate is more in terms of the institutions which do not have the training systems in place.   "I have to recruit 6 to 10 faulty members  who will look better for my admissions and placements"  This is the thinking of institutions management. 

It is easy to communicate that I have a faculty with 20 years experience in industry than to say that I have a faculty with 20 years of teaching experience.   It implies support for placements and learning from a "master" who has achieved some position in the industry the student would like to part of.   Till we have measurable metrics which mean some thing to the students about the teaching experience, the business schools will prefer the industry experienced to a academically trained assuming that salary is a constant.  If salary is not a constant, then it unfortunately is the maximum criteria for selection decisions. 


Therefore the challenge in designing metrics about teaching experience which means something to the students.   Can we look for developing these metrics which may be different from API used by Universities for performance appraisal.

For example, would you like to study under a teacher who was a board member of a company or a industry experienced person who was never on the board of any company?  

Thanks for an interesting debate and how a faculty should equip themselves to the competition around us. 


Best wishes and Warm regards

Nagapavan Chintalapati

On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Virendra Goel <goel.virendra@gmail.com> wrote:

What applies to a person with industry experience also applies to an academicians. If academician can teach without experience an experienced person can teach without being an academician. If working experience doesn't matter why there is so much dependency on case studies. Wherefrom all the theories have come? Somebody at some point of time did try some innovative idea , same was then tried by many more and then combined data established the theory. Practices like JIT and KAIZEN – they were result of research or practice?

Regards

Virendra Goel

 

From: join_mtc@googlegroups.com [mailto:join_mtc@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of p v s sai
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 8:44 PM
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com


Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

 

Great ideas by Mr. Rajesh. There is a general misunderstanding that people from industry know everything about practical aspects of business irrespective of the positions they hold in the companies. Even if they specialize in one functional area they may not be experts in the entire gambit of such function.

Secondly comparing a heart surgeon with management faculty is inappropriate. Management is never considered as a profession in its fullest sense. It is legally mandatory to possess a prescribed qualification to practice medical profession while it is not so for management profession either in corporate or in academics. It is not compulsory to possess M. B. A. to work as a manager in a company. Many of the Bank officers or insurance officers do not possess an M. B. A. Degree at the time of their initial appointment. Some of them aquire M. B. A. Through distance mode may be at a later stage of their career. Hence comparison is not appropriate. Encouraging such people to join as academicians after retirement is absolutely incorrect. Prof. Sai

Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

From: "Rajesh V - Retail Expert & Consultant" <vr.office@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 18:52:41 +0530

Cc: Prof. Bholanath Dutta<bnath.dutta@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

 

Hi,

 

It has been interesting to watch the various views and comments of the members on this topic. While I agree that academics cannot become a soft option after full service, there can be no denying the fact that industry experience is CRUCIAL in most streams of education. Especially so in management, engineering, etc.

 

It is coincidental that I spoke on this topic a few weeks ago and had also shared my presentation with the group. My contention is as follows -

 

- What is the end result of expected by students/ parents from our education system?

 

If it is employability which is what everyone in India seeks nowadays, industry experience for faculty is mandatory. On the other hand, if it is pursuit of knowledge then research and paper publishing might be good enough qualifications.

Will anyone in the group agree to have a heart surgery done by someone who has learn the same from a teacher who has never done an operation in their life? However, the said teacher has done tremendous research and published several papers in reputed journals on heart surgery. So, involving practitioners in academics is no longer a choice. It is becoming mandatory because they bring to the table hands on experience.

 

It should also be made mandatory by the governing bodies that academics should possess industry experience. This could be in full time positions or even as part time internships with organizations. The key focus being that they should be exposed to hands on, front line business activities and not limit themselves to office based consulting kind of exposure.

 

Bye

VR


Retail Strategy Consultant, Knowledge Partner & Author

 

 

On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 1:37 PM, <join_mtc@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 

"p v s sai " <pvssai@gmail.com>: Feb 22 02:08AM

Some one comparing all of us with great personalities like Swami Vivekananda, Mahatma Gandhi Martin luther king. I wonder how the comparison can be made?
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "p v s sai " <pvssai@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 02:03:58
To: <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: pvssai@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders
 
I am finding people with 35+ years of industry experience are now teaching in management schools as Professors who do have little research experience. For three reasons I feel they should be disqualified.
1. They may not be having research experience or a 'genuine' Ph. D.
2. If they work after 60 years also ( employed at 23) where are the job opportunities for youth?
3. They cannot be as energetic and enthusiastic as those of youngsters.
 
With great reasons retirement at the age of 60 is introduced. Let us honor it. Prof. Sai
 
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "p v s sai " <pvssai@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 01:49:33
To: <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: pvssai@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders
 
Dear all, I strongly advise that people who retire from industry after 20 years of service should be disqualified to join academics as they are seeing this as a shelter for their retired life. Prof. Sai
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Natrajan Chandrasekhar <mithmerc@hotmail.com>
Sender: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 11:24:40
To: <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask
varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders
 
Esteemed Colleagues
In fact I would now sponsor the idea of "the other way around"! Individuals without industry experience of at least say 5 years should not be taken on as Professor's particularly in Business Schools & Engineering schools. What Mr Makarand Joshi has pointed out is a very very important issue. Remember what we should try to address is the huge gap between preaching and practicing. Would suggest that individuals interested visit such schools abroad and gather factual information.
Warm regards
N Chandrasekhar
Camp -Puebla, Mexico ( Visiting faculty)
 
--
Sent from my Lumia Windows Phone
________________________________
From: MAKARAND JOSHI<mailto:makarand1234@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎2/‎21/‎2015 11:14 AM
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com<mailto:join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders
 
I really wonder ....
 
1. How a person who has not sold anything worth even a rupee can teach a
subject like Marketing Management?
2. How a person who has never worked in a Bank can teach Banking
3. How a person who has never worked in a finance department of any
company can teach Corporate Finance
4. How a person who has never worked in any company as an HR guy teach HRM?
5 How a person who has never worked in a factory shop floor can teach
Operations Management?
 
 
How does a NET or a PhD help a person to acquire practical aspects of these
professions which can be brought into the classroom?
 
Anyone please?
 
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to join_mtc+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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"Virendra Goel" <goel.virendra@gmail.com>: Feb 22 09:40AM +0530

The discussion has become a war of bias based on personal experience instead of how student will be benefitted, nobody is perfect, experience matters, it is important for the educators to know about ever changing dynamics of the world – discussion needs to be focused on how this end can be achieved.
Regards
Virendra Goel

From: join_mtc@googlegroups.com [mailto:join_mtc@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of p v s sai
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 7:38 AM
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

Some one comparing all of us with great personalities like Swami Vivekananda, Mahatma Gandhi Martin luther king. I wonder how the comparison can be made?
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
_____
 
From: "p v s sai " <pvssai@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 02:03:58 +0000
To: <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: pvssai@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

I am finding people with 35+ years of industry experience are now teaching in management schools as Professors who do have little research experience. For three reasons I feel they should be disqualified.
1. They may not be having research experience or a 'genuine' Ph. D.
2. If they work after 60 years also ( employed at 23) where are the job opportunities for youth?
3. They cannot be as energetic and enthusiastic as those of youngsters.
 
With great reasons retirement at the age of 60 is introduced. Let us honor it. Prof. Sai
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
_____
 
From: "p v s sai " <pvssai@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 01:49:33 +0000
To: <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: pvssai@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

Dear all, I strongly advise that people who retire from industry after 20 years of service should be disqualified to join academics as they are seeing this as a shelter for their retired life. Prof. Sai
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
_____
 
From: Natrajan Chandrasekhar <mithmerc@hotmail.com>
Sender: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 11:24:40 -0600
To: <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

Esteemed Colleagues
In fact I would now sponsor the idea of "the other way around"! Individuals without industry experience of at least say 5 years should not be taken on as Professor's particularly in Business Schools & Engineering schools. What Mr Makarand Joshi has pointed out is a very very important issue. Remember what we should try to address is the huge gap between preaching and practicing. Would suggest that individuals interested visit such schools abroad and gather factual information.
Warm regards
N Chandrasekhar
Camp -Puebla, Mexico ( Visiting faculty)
 
--
Sent from my Lumia Windows Phone
_____
 
From: MAKARAND JOSHI <mailto:makarand1234@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎2/‎21/‎2015 11:14 AM
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders
I really wonder ....

1. How a person who has not sold anything worth even a rupee can teach a subject like Marketing Management?
2. How a person who has never worked in a Bank can teach Banking
3. How a person who has never worked in a finance department of any company can teach Corporate Finance
4. How a person who has never worked in any company as an HR guy teach HRM?
5 How a person who has never worked in a factory shop floor can teach Operations Management?


How does a NET or a PhD help a person to acquire practical aspects of these professions which can be brought into the classroom?

Anyone please?

On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 1:37 PM, prithvishankar <psray61@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Esteemed members,
 
With the implementation of Choice based credit system, the emphasis is on employ ability aspects of education; hence system and the students would require more teaching delivery content and mechanism based on experiential knowledge from industry too. I am sure our education system is robust to determine whether an industry person possess basic domain knowledge throuugh his education system that he/ she had qualified earlier. He/ she needs to update with current domain knowledge regularly (though more theoretical than empirical) if they want to join and survive in academic mainstream. No body would hesitate to qualify any examination like UGC-Net. But perhaps, it is like telling a practicing doctor/ engineer/ professional who also research interests and can also teach effectively , to qualify again for a current MBBS/ B.Tech / MBA/ CA degree respectively!
 
I wonder, and I am sorry to observe that in this forum the a large section of esteemed academic fraternity who haven't had any industry experience , never talks of going through any kind industry internships to update themselves. Rather than welcoming people from industry, and encouraging mutual peer-to-peer learning , they would suggest ways of restricting them! It is this very reason, that people from industry are reluctant to join academics and those who join are not allowed to effectively contribute and grow! Ultimately, it is the feedback from the main stakeholders, that is students, which matters as to who has basic domain knowledge or not, and who can deliver experiential knowledge or not! There is a huge reluctance from the academic fraternity domain that is resisting these feedback systems to be effectively implemented, to which industry people are used to for learning and improvements.
 
I request the MHRD and UGC to note the above aspects and create conditions to correct them, and put them into action.
 
Request your kind views on them!
 
regards,
Dr.P.S.Raychaudhuri
New Delhi
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"Virendra Goel" <goel.virendra@gmail.com>: Feb 22 09:46AM +0530

How many practicing teachers have feel of the challenges faced by individuals on shop floor and different working conditions ?
How Many faculty members are connected to the dynamics of world economics and challenges ahead?
Why teachers are seeking jobs elsewhere after their retirement?
Simply questioning and raising objections is not going to achieve anything. Important is when we deny one proposal, we also have an alternative proposal.
Regards
Virendra Goel

From: join_mtc@googlegroups.com [mailto:join_mtc@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of p v s sai
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 1:42 AM
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders askvarsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

Dear members, I have been closely reading the mails of various members regarding eligibility to be appointed as faculty in managment institutes. I agree that there should be theoretical as well as practical knowledge for the appointment as faculty. Following are some of the points for which I seek clarification.
1. Why the so called industry experts are willing to join academics after their retirement? Why can't it be during the early part of their career?
2. How many industry experts regularly publish research papers in reputed journals during the early part of their career if they have passion for research and teaching?
3. How many of them have patience to regularly go to class, teach and evaluate student performance?
 
I feel that these so called experts are looking at academics as a second innings game. They also come with an intention to relax and claim salary/pension from the educational institutions. This I am confirming with my personal observation as a senior Professor in Management. Prof. Sai
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
_____
 
From: "Virendra Goel" <goel.virendra@gmail.com>
Sender: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 19:40:28 +0530
To: <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders askvarsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

My own experience is that Industry has no hesitation to allow students and faculty from higher education to their premises provided they are not asked to bear any financial responsibility and students/faculty coming to them are self learners.
Regards
Virendra Goel

From: join_mtc@googlegroups.com [mailto:join_mtc@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. A N SHANKAR
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 5:58 PM
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders askvarsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders

MEmbers


I would like to share with you my concern over the INDUSTRY ACADEMIC INTERFACE

Its not only that Industry shall be invited to share its eperience

As a Social Responsibility in the interest of the Future INDUSTRY Shall also invite academicians
Depute them of course with no Stipends
Allow the academicians to observe and feel the need of the hour

If the industry remains busy maximisaiton of wealth without foreseeing the need of Future HR
Ourselves pondering upon the issue is baseless.

Such a deputation of Academicians may be on paid basis from the Academic Institution
Same shall be rotated amongst each member of faculty from time to time at regular intervals.
Inputs drawn therefrom must be shared in development of curriculum and
Skills needed to be inculcated amongst students will be well matched with the environmental needs.




Regards



On 21 February 2015 at 13:37, prithvishankar <psray61@hotmail.com> wrote:
< https://www.boxbe.com/overview> Boxbe <http://www.boxbe.com/stfopen?tc_serial=20507066705&tc_rand=1221598925&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (psray61@hotmail.com) <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3Dg6lSCkdkFzDLBVjcL921xUIyEv1YpGxoK7kNaxXQ0yWp1kttrcUhC2kAy%252F%252Fr%252BX2v9blePZaK5g%252B4UmE9vrET1e7JyogEjh33p8V0Y5o08hneukcrkGRsVuZuNZ1whHRrOZnfVhtNZAA%253D%26key%3DWOtmy7OQlAqp9wmDqnSHWwEvkzcwSUBVxQgBXim3pFk%253D&tc_serial=20507066705&tc_rand=1221598925&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> Add cleanup rule | <http://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=20507066705&tc_rand=1221598925&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> More info

Dear Esteemed members,
 
With the implementation of Choice based credit system, the emphasis is on employ ability aspects of education; hence system and the students would require more teaching delivery content and mechanism based on experiential knowledge from industry too. I am sure our education system is robust to determine whether an industry person possess basic domain knowledge throuugh his education system that he/ she had qualified earlier. He/ she needs to update with current domain knowledge regularly (though more theoretical than empirical) if they want to join and survive in academic mainstream. No body would hesitate to qualify any examination like UGC-Net. But perhaps, it is like telling a practicing doctor/ engineer/ professional who also research interests and can also teach effectively , to qualify again for a current MBBS/ B.Tech / MBA/ CA degree respectively!
 
I wonder, and I am sorry to observe that in this forum the a large section of esteemed academic fraternity who haven't had any industry experience , never talks of going through any kind industry internships to update themselves. Rather than welcoming people from industry, and encouraging mutual peer-to-peer learning , they would suggest ways of restricting them! It is this very reason, that people from industry are reluctant to join academics and those who join are not allowed to effectively contribute and grow! Ultimately, it is the feedback from the main stakeholders, that is students, which matters as to who has basic domain knowledge or not, and who can deliver experiential knowledge or not! There is a huge reluctance from the academic fraternity domain that is resisting these feedback systems to be effectively implemented, to which industry people are used to for learning and improvements.
 
I request the MHRD and UGC to note the above aspects and create conditions to correct them, and put them into action.
 
Request your kind views on them!
 
regards,
Dr.P.S.Raychaudhuri
New Delhi
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PRADIP BURMAN RAY <pburmanray@gmail.com>: Feb 22 09:30AM +0530

A very interesting discussion is on. I am in full agreement with Dr. Ray
Choudhury.
 
If you consider what is a 'thesis or a dissertation', the answer would
probably be 'a new approach to a problem or a newly found problem for
solving the same'.
 
In industry the Managers are faced with problems everyday and they have to
find out unique methods to solve them. Very rarely the problems are
repeated.
 
The Industry Managers, as such are continuously learning and the experience
they gain over the years can, to my views, be equated to a Doctorate Degree.
 
Further the objective of Management Education is primarily to build
Industry leaders ( not Management Professors) and the future Industry
leaders need the coaching of persons who are or have been in Industry.
 
In other countries we find the leaders of Industry / politics often swap
their roles with those in teaching.
 
Even in our neighboring countries, the foreign ministers and the UN
representatives are with teaching background and are very successful as
teachers.
 
Regards
 
PRADIP BURMAN RAY
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "prithvishankar" <psray61@hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2015 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: [MTC Global] Industry experience in academics=UGC NET holders
ask varsities to end practice to appoint non NET PhD holders
To: "join_mtc@googlegroups.com" <join_mtc@googlegroups.com>
Cc:
 
Dear Esteemed members,

VIJAYA BHASKAR Kolur <kolurvijaya@gmail.com>: Feb 22 12:18PM +0530

Added to the conversation the people who have industrial experience half of
their industrial experienced is considered for teaching experience. It
happened with mine I had 7 yes in bank and 11 years in insurance industry.
Many colleges told only we can consider 9 yrs and my post graduation was
distance mode so it was reduced to 5 yes. But I can challenge the
experienced person can give lot of inputs caselaws and related examples in
the class.

 

 

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We shall not fail—if we stand firm, we shall not fail.
Wise counsels may accelerate, or mistakes delay it,
but, sooner or later, the victory is sure to come.           —Abraham Lincoln

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Unknown ● Sunday, February 22, 2015

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