If the classification is based on form and nature of work, and if the form and nature of work changes it is obvious that , by any logical comprehension that the classification also changes time to time .
Do you have the same classification of works ,as you use to have in Greek an Roman civilization ?. So why we should have that in case of Indian Civilization. Taylors and Drucker both did there own classification of work, on the base of the industrial civilization on Pan American context , Sri Krishna/Vyasa did his classification on the basis of agricultural civilization on the basis of Pan Indian context . Today if you have to do an classification it would be based on knowledge based industry, and on that case classification would be different.
Old should be the basis of new, and not the limitation for new. There is a difference between religious bigotism and spiritual comprehension . One has created all the extremist element leading to suffering of mankind , on holding back the old in a mindless way , and the other has improved the life in earth by creating the old as the basis of new creation, and not as a limitation of new creation .
-- Do you have the same classification of works ,as you use to have in Greek an Roman civilization ?. So why we should have that in case of Indian Civilization. Taylors and Drucker both did there own classification of work, on the base of the industrial civilization on Pan American context , Sri Krishna/Vyasa did his classification on the basis of agricultural civilization on the basis of Pan Indian context . Today if you have to do an classification it would be based on knowledge based industry, and on that case classification would be different.
Old should be the basis of new, and not the limitation for new. There is a difference between religious bigotism and spiritual comprehension . One has created all the extremist element leading to suffering of mankind , on holding back the old in a mindless way , and the other has improved the life in earth by creating the old as the basis of new creation, and not as a limitation of new creation .
--
Regards,
Sri Joydip
Noted Management Guru,
Founder & Chairman,
Sri Joydip Ashram
http://www.srijoydipashram.org
Regards,
Sri Joydip
Noted Management Guru,
Founder & Chairman,
Sri Joydip Ashram
http://www.srijoydipashram.org
Know more about @Srijoydip and his work http://sri-joydip.branded.me/
and his nomination as Top 10 thinkers http://t.co/YQA6i7Cg56
Watch "Inner Journey of Sri Joydip Ashram"
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Linkedin I Twitter | Facebook
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Call: 9339775464, 09007295256
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Office - 4 N S Road , Kolkata - 1
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On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Prabhakar Waghodekar <waghodekar@rediffmail.com> wrote:
Right, Varnas means division of labour into four components that are essential to run the society, One may take up any work, it can be classified (fitted) into one of the four components. Forms or nature of work may change but classification does not, though there could be switching over from one Varna (profession) to another. does it not so in US, UK, Germany, Russia, etc.or for that matter in the entire world ?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 04 Apr 2015 09:37:16 +0530 Sri Joydip wrote
>The division of work are basis of varna .As some of the work at that point of civilization is invalid right now,so some of the varnas are also outdated at this point which are based on division of work.
On 04-Apr-2015 6:29 AM, "Prabhakar Waghodekar" wrote:In Indian culture, host of things are scientific based and tested successfully over a long period of time. One of them is Varna.
Varna means profession like:
1. Brahman: thinkers, brain work
2. Kshatriya : protectors of society.
3, Vaihya: dealing with commercial activities, logistics
4. Shudra: service people.
These four are the vital elements of "Samaj Pusush", brain, hands, stomach and legs. They are all equally important and vital to keep alive the society, no one is superior or no one is inferior. Varnas are decided on the potential of a person, a Brahman kid by birth can adopt anyone of the remaining three Varnas as per his potential, attitude, etc., and vice verse, i.e., persons were allowed to take up any Varna as one';s capacity/potential, e.g., Ramayana and Mahabharata were written by Shudras, Walmiki and Vyas, Shudras by birth but of Brahman';s Varna later. Though Dr. Ambedkar was Shudra (in fact; Kshatriya) by birth, he was a Brahman by his deeds.
But as the time passed, in the self-vested interests we converted Varnas into castes spoiling the glory of India, There is one more point, all these Varnas (may be of male or female) are having Gotra and all persons used to perform such Sanskars as Upanayan, putting sacred thread, etc. Unlike UK we do not connect ourselves with some ruling clans, but we connect to our origin with a knowledge teacher, Gotra Rushi, who might belong to any Varna by birth. In fact, all teachers and scientists are Brahmans, all Police and Soldiers are Kshatriyas, all trading community Vaishyas and all service people including production and IT professionals are Shudras. Please note one will find all these four Varnas in all society, in all countries world over, independent of religion, castes, faith, etc. I appeal that the terminology of Varnas be taken in the right spirit, e.g. Shudra does not stand for something of inferiority as we understand. British recognized the capacity of Shudras, mainly of Mahar, who could work as the best messengers (running 30-40 kn at a stretch who could withstand against Hitler army like a rock!).
Let me end up with the following one more note:
Indian Rushi did a great experiment introducing Non_Varna_Sankar (no hybridizing) with the hypothesis, as to day we know, the next generation can be made stronger if marriages are not allowed between Varnas (Varna Sankar, prohibiting inter-Varna marriages), namely, a Brahman girl or boy must marry only with Brahman boy or girl, etc. But this hypothesis failed as it was against the nature! Mind well such things as Varnas, castes, religion, etc., are man made systems, nature only made male and female.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
On Fri, 03 Apr 2015 21:15:45 +0530 "Virendra Goel" wrote
> We are again talking of 'varna' – It means Vyapar or Profession – varna by birth will go out and we shall be back to the original varna system.RegardsVirendra GoelFrom: join_mtc@googlegroups.com [mailto:join_mtc@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 6:06 PM
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MTC Global] another great readingafter 50-60 years there will not be any castes or religions. already it started. in future there will be only professional differences. means son of a politician becomes politician or a gunda. son of an actor becomes an actor. doctors children becomes doctor. their profession becomes their castes. so people need not have to worry about any religion.ushaFrom: Usha Gowri
To: join_mtc@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 9:59 AM
Subject: [MTC Global] another great readinglovely write up by PAK...sharing it without his permission...Ananthakrishnan Pakshirajann and philosophy. And don't ask clever, rhetorical questions simply for scoring points, when you clearly know what I mean. I concede that you are devilishly clever and there is no need to prove it here. Please don't use this page to preen yourself.
1. Yes, a person who is born a Hindu and feels that he is a Hindu can be an atheist or an agnostic. I am one. Though I am an agnostic, I am culturally a Hindu and cherish its long tradition. I choose what is good in them and throw away what I consider is the rubbish. You may come back and say that the entire tradition is rubbish. That is your choice.
2. Every religion has used violence as a mean of propagation and for imposing the will of a few on the hapless others. Even Buddhists and Jains have done that, though not on the scales of other major religions. Hinduism is no exception.
3. Yes, Hinduism is a set of myriad and, at times, even contrasting belief systems. But ask any ordinary person anywhere in India, who is a born a Hindu, there is an overwhelming probability that he will unhesitatingly say that he is a Hindu. This has absolutely nothing to do with his caste. This was so in the near past. My grandmother had never set foot in a Shiva temple. She would not eat in an Iyer's house. She would not allow the maid in the kitchen. If somebody had asked her what the religion of the Iyer neighbour or the maid was, she would have said Hindu without batting an eyelid. The Iyer neighbour and the maid would have heartily agreed.
4. Yes, the varna system was hierarchical and it was absolutely condemnable that a set of people were considered beyond the pale of this unjust social system. Varna had scriptural sanction. But for the last few centuries at least, it has no legal sanction. But castes never had scriptural sanction. For instance, until about 50 years ago, it was quite difficult to find an Iyer-Iyengar couple, though no scripture speaks against such alliances. Today such marriages are common place. The circle keeps widening. Caste is more a socio-economic phenomenon than a religious one. What is to be kept in mind is that today there is absolutely no legal sanction today for both Varna and caste. Hinduism is still thriving. I know what Ambedkar has stated about this subject and therefore don't throw his book at me.
5. I repeat. It should be obvious to everyone that Hinduism is a religion that is operating merrily, though what some consider is its core ideology – Varna - has no legal sanction whatsoever. Caste never had a scriptural sanction to begin with and has no legal sanction now. Socially caste is still strong, there is no doubt. But religion has not much to do with it. It will be instructive to take a survey to find out the percentage of inter-caste marriages among Christians – that is, marriages between Nadar and Dalit Christians and marriages between Parava and Dalit Christians. Or the marriages between Nat, Chamail or Abdal Muslims and other Muslims of non-Dalit origin.
6. I am of the view that the stranglehold of caste is showing signs of loosening. There are several factors operating against it. The first is that the quiet social acceptance of caste is being questioned strongly now, which was not the case a few years ago. The intensity is uneven, but it is happening all over India in several forms. The second is that urbanization of India also means that these distinctions will slowly disintegrate. There are signs that endogamy is weakening, albeit at a very slow rate. When modernization takes place it will further weaken and eventually disappear. Yes, the dominant castes have used the opportunity given by the advance of democracy to monopolize the levers of power. But I am sure this is a temporary phenomenon. The internal contradictions within the dominant castes will ensure the collapse of this monopoly. Yes, there will be caste organizations in future, but they will be like the old boys' clubs, where people gather and lament about the good old days. Of course the forces of caste are fighting tooth and nail in several ways. It will be idle to expect that they will quietly accept the slow disintegration of their social system. But I am convinced that theirs is a losing battle. But this is a long drawn battle and it may take years, even centuries.
7. Now in the event of this disintegration, Will Hinduism remain a recognizable religion? My answer to this question is this: even now, it is an amalgam of various belief systems and it is still called Hindu religion. Will the name of the future religion which has done away with caste system remain Hindu? I am not sure and I don't care. We will do well to remember that this Indian religion or group of religions acquired the name Hindu very late and it can as well shed it without losing its identity.
8. What is its identity? You may say it is caste. Then you must explain to me as to why Muslims and Christians in India strive to keep their caste identity intact. You may say that it is the remnant of their Hindu past. But they still hold this identity and remain Christians or Muslims, aren';t they? Thus it is much to do with social and economic relationships and not religion. I knew of several families in Tirunelveli in which the husband was a Hindu and the wife Christian. They lived peacefully without losing their caste identity.
9. Religiously speaking, what will be the Hindu identity, if it is not the caste identity? Forget the philosophical shibboleths. At the popular level, it will be the basic urge to worship (or view with awe) every aspect of nature and what the Hindu believes is the operating force behind it in an idolized form or even other forms. It will be the belief that the human form is just a temporary gift - it could well be any other form of life. The final overarching belief, common to all religions, will be that there is a supreme being who controls our activities. The Hindu's supplementary belief will be that it is every life's goal to be as near Him or Her as possible.( italics all mine)There will also be a minority within this religion (a minuscule one without doubt) that may not believe in any of these but will still be culturally recognizable as Hindu. Apostates will have no fear in this religion that their heads will be chopped off.
10. I am also sure that as civilization advances human beings will come to the conclusion that they no longer need the crutch of religion to tackle the uncertainties of existence. When that happens all religions will disappear. This may not happen like the Big Bang happened. It will be gradual and maybe what we call Hinduism will be the first religion to bid us goodbye. Who knows?--
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Regards,
Dr. P H Waghodekar, PhD (Egg), IIT,KGP, IE&M, 1985,
Advisor (HR), IBS & PME (PG)
Marathwada Institute of Technology,
NH 211, Beed by pass road,
Aurangabad: 431010 (Maharashtra) INDIA.
(O) 02402375113 (M) 7276661925
E-Mail: waghodekar@rediffmail.com
Website: www.mit.asia
and
Chairman, Advisory Board, MTC Global, Bangalore.
Engineering & Management Education: An Engine of Prosperity.
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Regards,
Dr. P H Waghodekar, PhD (Egg), IIT,KGP, IE&M, 1985,
Advisor (HR), IBS & PME (PG)
Marathwada Institute of Technology,
NH 211, Beed by pass road,
Aurangabad: 431010 (Maharashtra) INDIA.
(O) 02402375113 (M) 7276661925
E-Mail: waghodekar@rediffmail.com
Website: www.mit.asia
and
Chairman, Advisory Board, MTC Global, Bangalore.
Engineering & Management Education: An Engine of Prosperity.
Classroom teaching must match with Boardroom needs!
Know More >
MTC GLOBAL- Educate, Empower, Elevate
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