Hello all,
It has always puzzled me when people think beyond themselves as far to label a prophet like TB Joshua, in totalitarian terms as "false". I have written several times on the TBJ's web; yet I have fallen short of a litmus proof of falsehood. My on-the-fence approach has seldom been reproached, but certainly has always been of a position of humility and fear of the unknown (doubts). So when I hear those who claim to be "educated" (whatever that means: Western or....... Eastern?) enough to label him as false without a display of intellectual reason and spiritual discernment enough to challenge the contrary, it dulls my reservation. I have read some people challenge Justice Mbuh's claim that TBJ is genuine based on the fact that he is "educated" as if Western education is all one has for empirical reason. When civilization had arrived Egypt some 3000BC ago, the present "West" had not yet been found, yet Egyptians didn't speak in English or French - that simple language of expression that creates a foreign and ill-informed impression that my grandparents were illiterates. The irony is that those who claim to be "educated" discuss a religious subject as if education excludes religious facts; else why would one praise Mr Epie Ngome for claiming that Christianity is void of prophecy as if the practice thereof is not sanctioned by Christianity's scared texts?
It raises dust further whether the "educationist" argument rises from empirical reason when one views that there is no measurement without a margin of error neither is there any machine with 100% efficiency; to totally deny Joshua of a benefit of doubt.
So far those who label TB Joshua with a red paint brush as false have not presented any proof of such, instead one would believe the testimonies of those who have personal experiences with the man. It is far more acceptable in TB Joshua case, to hear from those who have personally met him, especially those who testify like Justice Mbuh that he once held him in such ill-informed falsehood before his contact.
It would do us a favor if we revisit the definition of "Prophet" and "Prophecy" to derive whether TBJ and his activities fit the accurate paradigm.
The Webster's Standard English Dictionary defines a "prophet" as "one who pronounces or interprets by divine inspiration." So the Prophet does two things: pronounce (proclaim) and/or interprets. What many have been ignorant about is that a prophet is exclusively one who "foretells"; which is part of pronouncement. TBJ has been doing both, which means he is a prophet. So we are remained with the task to derive what kind of prophet he is: False or True? Just to raise this question informs us that even if TBJ is false, there exists the "True" prophets. So in this debate, can the opposing sides really accept that there are some prophets that are True? And can they name just one true prophet of all the thousands of prophets in the world? The only way one can do this exercise sincerely is to name general characteristics of falsehood and Truth-hood; at which end TBJ will be scoring many "goods" than "bads". The other way to do this is to find out whether his prophecy helps from those who have experienced him; at which end he scores higher than any other in the business.
The Webster's Standard English Dictionary defines a "prophecy" simply as "a prediction or forecast". Thus the terms "prediction" and "forecast" usually presents an act that involves an element of doubt; it is never clear to predict or forecast. The prophet will never see or hear clearly what the spirit tells him and even when they convey the message, it is usually in terms wrapped in clouds of uncertainty and doubt. That is exactly what TBJ does for example when he saw the calamity in his very church, but it was not that clear else it would not happen. He has never in any instant claim to see so clearly that the event would occur or must occur in terms described. But the fact that he speaks of an event and it happens, does present him as a prophet in much accuracy enough to be believed; at least by his followers and those who are in need and are being helped. When you fault him solely on accuracy, you do him some injustice if you actually are "educated" enough to know that a "prediction" and a "forecast" are wrapped in doubts. What about your medical doctors who cannot save themselves from death?
In discussing this religious matter, let's use some christian scriptures:
1Cor.14: "Follow the way of love, and eagerly desire gifts, especially prophecy.....Because, the one who prophesies speak to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.....the one who prophesies edifies the church. So, ....i would rather you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater....." (1-5)NIV. Those "educationists" need to be informed that prophecy is sanctioned as one of the best spiritual gifts in the Christian bible and therefore is to be practiced. Now, there are many types of prophecies, but the one that is forbidden is any that seeks to add or to subtract from the closed cannon of scriptures. If anyone thinks that they can receive a new revelation form God that contradicts what the infallible word of God as written and collected in the canon, that person is a false prophet. Since we are talking about TB Joshua, there has never been an instant (at least no known to me) when he has attempted to add or subtract from the Bible.
1Cor. 13: "Love never fails. But where there are prophecies they will cease;......For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the completeness comes, what is in part disappears"(8-9)NIV. Can you imagine the almighty, "educated" Paul being honest to acknowledge that even his own prophecies are not perfect? He represents a humility that this world craves for in the arrogant multiple mushroom prophets! I think what makes us label prophets as false is not so much the accuracy of their prophecies, than it is the arrogance mediating them. Yet in the case of Joshua, I have never heard him claim that his prophesies are without error in articulation or in occurrence. Nevertheless I fault him for many characteristics that display ungodliness, but still run short of calling him a false prophet just because of the incident of John the Baptist Vs Jesus Christ.
Jesus had made this statement: "A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, and in his own home". Matt. 13:57. While I fault TB Joshua for certain characteristics, I still withhold totally labeling him as false for lack of "complete" or sufficient evidence beyond reasonable doubt. After Jesus made this statement above, something interesting is happening to John the Baptist, His fore-running prophet in Herode's custody (prison). While in the prison, John contemplates his fate. After his disciples recount to him numerous miracles Jesus is performing in the community, he wants to be sure if Jesus is truly the "messiah" to be consoled at least, even if he would be killed - he must not be dying in regret. So he sends his disciples to question Jesus:
Matt. 11:3-5: "3And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? 4Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 5The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.KJV.
To make a point here let's consider:
Matt. 7:15-20:" Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, you will know them by their fruits."
John The Baptist would be consoled solely by the fact that miracles were being (in accordance with the prophecy in Isaiah 35:5; to which both are privy) performed and people are being helped. Jesus would state that anyone who does these good things should be considered "good"(true). Is TBJ a true prophet or a false prophet? Does he do good to people by his prophecy? So far we have had here and in many instances, people testifying of being helped. Our conclusion, according to Jesus himself, would be to consider TBJ as a true prophet.
Are there people who do "good", yet they are false? Absolutely! But until we have ample human and divine evidence, we cannot label them as false; such judgments belong to God. Some have not been called and yet they are prophesying in Jesus' name; actually performing numerous miracles. But Jesus did even caution the 72 disciples who returned bragging that they experienced wonders: "rather rejoice that your names have been written in the book of life". Paul also laments and dreads that while he has won many to Christ, and performed several miracles, he himself may be rejected at the end. False prophets may be chastised by God in this life, but most will only be revealed when Christ returns at which time many will testify that they cast demons and performed numerous miracles in Jesus' name but He would respond with a rejection: "depart from me you evil doers, I don't know you". Some chastisements may be as dramatic as to the sons of Sceva (Acts. 19:11-20) or as silent as them disappearing in their business to some shame, but all such is God's. Shall we even attempt to stop some prophets? No! Even if we have such compelling evidence that they are false. John had reported to Jesus after a field trip:"teacher we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us" But Jesus said "do not stop him:….. who is not against us is for us"(Mark 9:38-40). Those who wish to challenge prophets can only do it perfectly by the word of God. It shines in darkness and darkness flees.
Also if prophecy comes by "divine inspiration" our discernment on whether it is false or true can only be accurate if it is based on divine inspiration rather than solely on intellectual experience. Is TBJ false? He must be or not according to your personal experience?
Nformi Emmanuel
On Sunday, January 10, 2016 2:49 PM, 'Defang ivo' via ambasbay <ambasbay@googlegroups.com> wrote:
The Prophecy 2016 is all about What? Abusing Readers or Fan fair To TB Joshua?
On Thursday, January 7, 2016 12:02 AM, Dr. William NDI <drbillndi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for this rich contribution. I have stopped arguing with people who cannot seek or handle the truth and would rather place their hatred for TB Joshua at the fore. Those of us who are convinced of God's working through him are and cannot be swayed. So haters, keep your hatred to yourselves. It is not by painting him black when is already black that would change anything. In one forum, I have had e-mails bounced back to me just because they substantiate the good work TB Joshua is doing. It is needless to say my doctoral dissertation was on religious Mysticism/healing and preaching of the likes TB Joshua (who were equally disparaged) from 1647 to the modern day with specific emphasis on the Quakers. They were equally hated as TB Joshua is. And there were laws even passed in the British parliament against them: (The Quaker Act 1662, the Conventicle Act 1664,Quaker Act 1695 and its reaffirmation in 1701 in spite of the 1689 Toleration, yet the same Quakers were responsible for the founding of the greatest nation on earth with a constitution that echoes everything the Quakers stood for in their colony of Pennsylvania). Their influence though, ignored by these same people who'd not want to hear anything about people like them, is topical. I believe most of these TB Joshua haters would want to emulate the British Parliament and pass a law that makes of him the worst that ever existed and must be avoided. I would advise the haters that besides the testimonies of individuals TB Joshua haters could do a little bit of research than rely on rumors and gossips. Haters of TB Joshua, hate him all you will, the creator of mankind will recompense you for hating a person who does pray for the salvation of your soul. Remember prophets are not prophets for all and account for why Christ was crucified. Haters, why don't you educate yourselves on TB Joshua by reading scholarly works written by world class scholars about what is happening at the synagogue? You may also want to tell all of them "have gone native" that's why they write what they write. Haters keep you hate and "wisdom" and let TB lovers keep their "gullibility" and "weakness". Have a blessed one,
Sincerely, BFN
On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 3:43 PM, 'jitzigtt' via ambasbay <ambasbay@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Well my seniors, I ask all of this question. Did Jesus make us understand that beside the so called false prophets that shall exist after him, there shall also be people who shall truly have healing powers, perform miracles "even more than me" (read about the day of Pentecost). Dear all, I used to talk like you people. I for the past years taken keen observation about that man's teachings, preachings, lessons, what he has been doing to the community and above all hundreds of people who have been to Nigeria (to that church). To be honest with you, people's lives have been transformed. A friend of mine who had visual problems and has been using lenses obtained from Acha-Tugi since 1999, threw those lenses since 2011 after receiving prayers from TB Joshua. He says he now sees clearer more than ever before. Hon. Joseph Mbah Ndam (vice speaker at NA) also testified he stop using lenses after visiting and praying at SCOAN even without the touch of that man. And many more testimonies. Others have openly apologized having been criticizing TBJ and other "men of God". I have the fear that some of us who have earlier not wanted to see something good about these pple may not finally have the grace to see anything Godly in them. Another thing happening in mainstream churches especially Baptist is that Pastors have resorted to preaching against TB Joshua than preaching the WORD. I don't remember when TBJ ever said anything against any other pastor. I fear. To say he has never prophesied gives me the conclusion that some of us hate this man and may never want to see any good about him. I fear. I argue the fact that TBJ didn't prophesy about the dormitory collapse. He actually talked about this collapse saying " the whole world will wonder why such a thing could happen to these people ". Here this man spoke with impressions that he saw a collapse of a building but little did he it will be his own building. I refer you again to the bible story where Jesus himself would have used his powers to stop the Jews from molesting and killing him. Please rather than criticising TBJ watch him closely and see what you can draw from his lessons, teachings, deeds etc (emulate) rather than crucifying or judging him where the same bible forbids. God give us more ability to see and know the truth.Sent from my MTN Sm@rtphoneOn Jan 6, 2016 5:14 PM, 'legima Doh' via ambasbay <ambasbay@googlegroups.com> wrote:--JB Joshua is in my opinion the biggest fraud that religion has produced in Nigeria and Africa in general. He is an uneducated and deluded and deceptive charlatan.It is very disturbing that people continue to believe in him without any objective, verifiable reason. That is the result of credulity at its best. When you read through his insipid prophecies, you wonder how anyone reading through can possibly believe those to be coming from God. His prophecies are a poor restatements of world affairs with proposed courses of action that are less strategic than those that would come from a kindergarten. He does not prophesy and has never prophesied anything. He has not and cannot heal any illness, not even common cold. To believe he is a prophet, one must first have to assassinate their independent thought process and be blind to all forms of rationality.Legima Doh ,With God,Nothing is an Impossibility(Luke 1:37)On Wednesday, 6 January 2016, 3:14, 'Michael Johnson' via ambasbay <ambasbay@googlegroups.com> wrote:
These so-called men of God are very very intelligent and if you are spiritually weak, miserable and lazy you will find yourself dancing to their tunes. It baffles me when I see educated people who still fall into their wily style of trickery and deceits.Michael Johnson K.C.E.O JK. PRODUCTIONS LTDFilm-Making,Documentary,CulturalYou received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ambasbay" group.
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