Hello all,
It has always puzzled me when people think beyond themselves as far to label a prophet like TB Joshua, in totalitarian terms as "false". I have written several times on the TBJ's web; yet I have fallen short of a litmus proof of falsehood. My on-the-fence approach has seldom been reproached, but certainly has always been of a position of humility and fear of the unknown (doubts). So when I hear those who claim to be "educated" (whatever that means: Western or....... Eastern?) enough to label him as false without a display of intellectual reason and spiritual discernment enough to challenge the contrary, it dulls my reservation. I have read some people challenge Justice Mbuh's claim that TBJ is genuine based on the fact that he is "educated" as if Western education is all one has for empirical reason. When civilization had arrived Egypt some 3000BC ago, the present "West" had not yet been found, yet Egyptians didn't speak in English or French - that simple language of expression that creates a foreign and ill-informed impression that my grandparents were illiterates. The irony is that those who claim to be "educated" discuss a religious subject as if education excludes religious facts; else why would one praise Mr Epie Ngome for claiming that Christianity is void of prophecy as if the practice thereof is not sanctioned by Christianity's scared texts?
It raises dust further whether the "educationist" argument rises from empirical reason when one views that there is no measurement without a margin of error neither is there any machine with 100% efficiency; to totally deny Joshua of a benefit of doubt.
So far those who label TB Joshua with a red paint brush as false have not presented any proof of such, instead one would believe the testimonies of those who have personal experiences with the man. It is far more acceptable in TB Joshua case, to hear from those who have personally met him, especially those who testify like Justice Mbuh that he once held him in such ill-informed falsehood before his contact.
It would do us a favor if we revisit the definition of "Prophet" and "Prophecy" to derive whether TBJ and his activities fit the accurate paradigm.
The Webster's Standard English Dictionary defines a "prophet" as "one who pronounces or interprets by divine inspiration." So the Prophet does two things: pronounce (proclaim) and/or interprets. What many have been ignorant about is that a prophet is exclusively one who "foretells"; which is part of pronouncement. TBJ has been doing both, which means he is a prophet. So we are remained with the task to derive what kind of prophet he is: False or True? Just to raise this question informs us that even if TBJ is false, there exists the "True" prophets. So in this debate, can the opposing sides really accept that there are some prophets that are True? And can they name just one true prophet of all the thousands of prophets in the world? The only way one can do this exercise sincerely is to name general characteristics of falsehood and Truth-hood; at which end TBJ will be scoring many "goods" than "bads". The other way to do this is to find out whether his prophecy helps from those who have experienced him; at which end he scores higher than any other in the business.
The Webster's Standard English Dictionary defines a "prophecy" simply as "a prediction or forecast". Thus the terms "prediction" and "forecast" usually presents an act that involves an element of doubt; it is never clear to predict or forecast. The prophet will never see or hear clearly what the spirit tells him and even when they convey the message, it is usually in terms wrapped in clouds of uncertainty and doubt. That is exactly what TBJ does for example when he saw the calamity in his very church, but it was not that clear else it would not happen. He has never in any instant claim to see so clearly that the event would occur or must occur in terms described. But the fact that he speaks of an event and it happens, does present him as a prophet in much accuracy enough to be believed; at least by his followers and those who are in need and are being helped. When you fault him solely on accuracy, you do him some injustice if you actually are "educated" enough to know that a "prediction" and a "forecast" are wrapped in doubts. What about your medical doctors who cannot save themselves from death?
In discussing this religious matter, let's use some christian scriptures:
1Cor.14: "Follow the way of love, and eagerly desire gifts, especially prophecy.....Because, the one who prophesies speak to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.....the one who prophesies edifies the church. So, ....i would rather you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater....." (1-5)NIV. Those "educationists" need to be informed that prophecy is sanctioned as one of the best spiritual gifts in the Christian bible and therefore is to be practiced. Now, there are many types of prophecies, but the one that is forbidden is any that seeks to add or to subtract from the closed cannon of scriptures. If anyone thinks that they can receive a new revelation form God that contradicts what the infallible word of God as written and collected in the canon, that person is a false prophet. Since we are talking about TB Joshua, there has never been an instant (at least no known to me) when he has attempted to add or subtract from the Bible.
1Cor. 13: "Love never fails. But where there are prophecies they will cease;......For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the completeness comes, what is in part disappears"(8-9)NIV. Can you imagine the almighty, "educated" Paul being honest to acknowledge that even his own prophecies are not perfect? He represents a humility that this world craves for in the arrogant multiple mushroom prophets! I think what makes us label prophets as false is not so much the accuracy of their prophecies, than it is the arrogance mediating them. Yet in the case of Joshua, I have never heard him claim that his prophesies are without error in articulation or in occurrence. Nevertheless I fault him for many characteristics that display ungodliness, but still run short of calling him a false prophet just because of the incident of John the Baptist Vs Jesus Christ.
Jesus had made this statement: "A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, and in his own home". Matt. 13:57. While I fault TB Joshua for certain characteristics, I still withhold totally labeling him as false for lack of "complete" or sufficient evidence beyond reasonable doubt. After Jesus made this statement above, something interesting is happening to John the Baptist, His fore-running prophet in Herode's custody (prison). While in the prison, John contemplates his fate. After his disciples recount to him numerous miracles Jesus is performing in the community, he wants to be sure if Jesus is truly the "messiah" to be consoled at least, even if he would be killed - he must not be dying in regret. So he sends his disciples to question Jesus:
Matt. 11:3-5: "3And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? 4Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 5The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.KJV.
To make a point here let's consider:
Matt. 7:15-20:" Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, you will know them by their fruits."
John The Baptist would be consoled solely by the fact that miracles were being (in accordance with the prophecy in Isaiah 35:5; to which both are privy) performed and people are being helped. Jesus would state that anyone who does these good things should be considered "good"(true). Is TBJ a true prophet or a false prophet? Does he do good to people by his prophecy? So far we have had here and in many instances, people testifying of being helped. Our conclusion, according to Jesus himself, would be to consider TBJ as a true prophet.
Are there people who do "good", yet they are false? Absolutely! But until we have ample human and divine evidence, we cannot label them as false; such judgments belong to God. Some have not been called and yet they are prophesying in Jesus' name; actually performing numerous miracles. But Jesus did even caution the 72 disciples who returned bragging that they experienced wonders: "rather rejoice that your names have been written in the book of life". Paul also laments and dreads that while he has won many to Christ, and performed several miracles, he himself may be rejected at the end. False prophets may be chastised by God in this life, but most will only be revealed when Christ returns at which time many will testify that they cast demons and performed numerous miracles in Jesus' name but He would respond with a rejection: "depart from me you evil doers, I don't know you". Some chastisements may be as dramatic as to the sons of Sceva (Acts. 19:11-20) or as silent as them disappearing in their business to some shame, but all such is God's. Shall we even attempt to stop some prophets? No! Even if we have such compelling evidence that they are false. John had reported to Jesus after a field trip:"teacher we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us" But Jesus said "do not stop him:….. who is not against us is for us"(Mark 9:38-40). Those who wish to challenge prophets can only do it perfectly by the word of God. It shines in darkness and darkness flees.
Also if prophecy comes by "divine inspiration" our discernment on whether it is false or true can only be accurate if it is based on divine inspiration rather than solely on intellectual experience. Is TBJ false? He must be or not according to your personal experience?
Nformi Emmanuel
On Thursday, January 7, 2016 1:22 PM, "NDI MANJONG ngahndi@yahoo.com [wimbum]" <wimbum-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Justice,
Skilled "ngambe" people do also make assumedly precise recommendations after listening to their client's story. Goodluck lost the election and any reasonable person could have advised him to not be stupid trying to contest the results. One wonders why you went to TB Joshua instead of the old AMOC temple you once considered just as good. Given just your CPC education, you and your family did not have to hear from TB Joshua about leaving it all to God.
In Jumbam's "Whiteman of God", TB Joshua is neither responsible for nor predictor of Lokokomo's suffering for the terrible things he kept secret. What was TB Joshua's prediction to you about the Southern Cameroons Case? Could you of all persons have missed the opportunity to inquire about this matter for which you risk so much?
How did the devil get himself and Jesus to the top of the temple from which he advised Jesus to jump down? How did the devil and Jesus get down the temple after Jesus refused being tempted to jump down? We never shall know why Jesus even allowed Himself to be moved around by the devil. No one is preventing anyone from believing what they choose. There is nothing wrong in saying that for every "successful" Justice Mbuh visit from Caneroun to TB Joshua there are also many unsuccessful ones. Whatever happened to the other very "successful" prophet or "Man of God" of Manyu origin that once set up camp in Bamenda and was a crowd puller and miracle worker? A thousand years to God is like one human moment. The Bible has something regarding the coming of the end time. There is nothing there like the "ngambe" man predicting that the baby in the womb will either be male or female.
NDI MANJONG
Ndi Manjong et al,I think it is preposterous to pass such judgments on TBJ. For your information, he's been very accurate on many of his prophesies. In fact in some cases even too precise.Regarding your charge that he could not prohesy about the collapse of the hostel in the Synagogue premise, you are wrong bec. he did. He warned that the people should pray hard bec. a calamity would befall the Synague and the we should pray that our relatives or even his own were not involve.On the issue of the election in Nigeria, please, please, and please, check out how TBJ counselled Goodluch Jonathan and adviced him to dare not to contest the results and to let go!And about the recent pronouncements on SA, if he is wrong, time will tell. He was not wrong about the plane crash in Nigeria, like some one insnuated, nor that of the Russian passenger plane, etc.I think we should npot label him a fraud--for he is no way like that. That is my opinion.On a very personal note, as someone involved with high level esoterics since childhood (hmmmmm!), when I was attacked by wouldbe assassines just 100m from our home here on ENS St, Bambili on Friday Dec. 13, 2013 (see esoterics on the day, please, Fri. 13, 2013!), my family charged that bec. of my vibrations in esoterics, my being a member of the BCS, Charismatic, former AMOC, etc., I must have attractyed enemies to myself, if not possessed. They insisted I go to TBJ.Upon visiting the SCOAN in first week of January 2014, TBJ said I should leave it to God, citing the printed message of that Sunday, which I carried back home to my family who did not believe me when I told them what TBJ would say.Brethrens, three weeks after, what God did, I could not have done so in the most high spirits of revenge.The first two guys who attacked me (a police informant had already put tap on them and they were about to be arrested) were involved in a bike accident. The elder brother who charged kung-fu high and deadly smash on my chest with resultant dislocations and broken ribs died on the spot! The younger brother who was the driver, of course of the stollen bike suffered castration surplace! He also suffered multiple broken ribs, legs, arms and stayed in Mbingo for over six months!Even if I took an army to Bambili to inflict revenge, I might have ended up killing and maiming even wrong people.My friends, be careful, esp. if you do not know what you are saying, when you pass judgement on such a magnitute of Man of God that TBJ is.You may want to know that he tele-conducted the bus that was taking me home to surface in Calabar, where I should have consulted a far bigger Spiritual Leader OOO!Be very careful, please.Justice M. Mbuh (Ph.D).THE LEGACY OF AMBAZONIA (UN Trust Territory of British Cameroons): The Parliamentary Opposition, ...forged for itself a new role noteworthy for its dignity; and the government,..never attempted to withdraw...the legal recognition that was its due. Thanks to this...West Cameroon has won for itself the prestige of being the one place in West Africa (if not all of Africa) where democracy, in the British style, has lasted longest in its genuine form. --Prof. Bernard Nsukika Fonlon, The Task of Today, p. 9
From: 'NDI MANJONG' via ambasbay <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
To: "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>; "ambasbay@googlegroups.com" <ambasbay@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "wimbum@yahoogroups.com" <wimbum@yahoogroups.com>; "cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com" <cameroon_politics@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 6, 2016 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [BOYO] Prophet TB Joshua's Prophecy 2016
Legima,Thanks for the Bible verse. With God, even the likes of TB Joshua are possible (as with Judas it comes with a curse). He could not prophesy his own dormitory collapsing and killing desperate persons drawn to his falsehood from as far away as South Africa. How much believing there would be had he raised those unfortunate people from the dead of his making. Falsehood has a captivating flare. Many a person show up in church or at the mosque attracted much more by the falsehood of the pastor or the imam.NDI MANJONG
On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 11:14 AM, 'legima Doh' via ambasbay<ambasbay@googlegroups.com> wrote:JB Joshua is in my opinion the biggest fraud that religion has produced in Nigeria and Africa in general. He is an uneducated and deluded and deceptive charlatan.It is very disturbing that people continue to believe in him without any objective, verifiable reason. That is the result of credulity at its best. When you read through his insipid prophecies, you wonder how anyone reading through can possibly believe those to be coming from God. His prophecies are a poor restatements of world affairs with proposed courses of action that are less strategic than those that would come from a kindergarten. He does not prophesy and has never prophesied anything. He has not and cannot heal any illness, not even common cold. To believe he is a prophet, one must first have to assassinate their independent thought process and be blind to all forms of rationality.Legima Doh ,With God,Nothing is an Impossibility(Luke 1:37)On Wednesday, 6 January 2016, 3:14, 'Michael Johnson' via ambasbay <ambasbay@googlegroups.com> wrote:
These so-called men of God are very very intelligent and if you are spiritually weak, miserable and lazy you will find yourself dancing to their tunes. It baffles me when I see educated people who still fall into their wily style of trickery and deceits.Michael Johnson K.C.E.O JK. PRODUCTIONS LTDFilm-Making,Documentary,CulturalPromotion,Animation,TV spot,Videocoverage. etc. Tel: +237 6777410 30On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 10:38 PM, "Yibain Asahmbom yprincevas@yahoo.co.uk [BOYO]" <BOYO@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I am surprised people still fall to the manipulations of the prophesies of our numerous "men of God". He has been wise enough this year to give an unfavourable beginning of year's prophesy. Uptill 2014, beginning year's prophesies have been those of success, little did he know the doom that was ahead of him in 12th September. In 2015, almost all his prophsies failed; I can name some: ' Coroner must bow to high court', 'there will be a plane crash in Nigeria' which was twisted when a plane crashed in France, 'there will be a serious civil war in Nigeria on the thursday that followed after the pesidential elections which will lead to the death of a great politician' but peace reigned in Nigeria starting from the Teusday after the elections, 'the girls kidnapped by boko haram would go unharmed and untouched', etc....Now he has seen that prophesies of evil can easily come true bc the world of today is evil hence his 2016 prophecy. Can loans and investment agriculture regulate the intensity of rainfall as his 2016 prophecy suggests? I think we should stop listening to 'prophetes' and keep praying to God from our hearts.On Tuesday, 5 January 2016, 12:34, "Njousi Abang njousid@gmail.com [BOYO]" <BOYO@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Komrades,Prophet T B Joshua speaks out:
The highly acclaimed Prophet of God, Prophet TB Joshua has uttered prophecies for this year 2016 as were revealed to him by God. This is what he said:
"
To the world:
*There will be large scale scarcity, shortage of food. As a state, country, continent, we have to go back to the farm to arrest, to alleviate the forthcoming situation.
*Some countries will suffer excessive rainfall while others will suffer drought.
I encourage the governments of all nations to invest in agriculture and to grant loans to deserving citizens to augment this effort.
*The continent of Africa. How much have we disappointed God.
Africa is supposed to be the breadbasket of the world. We are supposed to produce a large quantum of food for the world. This is our natural resource base. Food should be our primary export to other continents. Food in exchange for technology.
*African leaders should quickly arrest the political situation.
More African countries will be under siege by terrorists because of pros and cons in choosing leaders. Mishandling of electoral processes will create a conducive atmosphere for terrorists.
Politics will not be business as usual because of limited resources. There will be no profit in investing in politics because of governments' limited resources and challenges.
This now gives grace to those who are genuinely called to the job. When you are genuinely called to do the job, you will do it because of your love for it and not because of money.
*The situation with Arab nations will increase and the tension will increase as well.
*This year, do what you love. There's money in love. Money in love brings peace and tranquility.
To Southern Africa:
*The South African currency that is going up and down will soon be stable.
There will be little rain at the wrong time which is not good for farming. Many farmers will be discouraged. The whole thing will shoot from South Africa. It will also affect power supply and health care.
*The situation will tempt the affected countries in Southern Africa and cause them to want to surrender most of their companies to foreign countries, but they should be careful not to do that.
The challenge will last only for a while and they will come out of it stronger.
*The way out to the challenge is that the government should build dams and irrigation mechanisms, using available water from the sea.
*Ending of February and April are very peculiar months to the nations of Southern Africa subregion. Let us observe prayers during that period for the leaders.
To Nigeria:
*Pray for President Buhari
He has good intentions. A king's intentions cannot be carried out properly without the support of the subjects. He needs your support, to lead us out of the valley.
*The president will do everything to reject revaluation of the naira – which is a good idea from a good leader. But there will be overwhelming pressure which he will not be able to resist.
Nigerians, support and pray for your leader. The future is crying for help.
*One of the minority parties will be lifted up and will be reckoned with. pray for love and unity in the country.
*We are to pray for the minister in charge of agriculture, for God to give him enablement and sustain him because much is expected from him.
To North Korea:
*Pray for the president of North Korea, I am seeing an arrow from there and it will affect the world. There are weapons there that the world doesn't know yet, if they throw that arrow, there'll be confusion in the world.
(Side Note: In confirmation of this particular prophecy, the president of North Korea made an announcement over the weekend that he's ready for war against any nation that challenges him or his nation)
"The Bible says when a prophet of God speaks, the wise listen. This is the man who prophesied about the Malaysian plane crash, the terrorist attacks in France and America, and several other incidents before they happened. I hope those in authority take his message seriously!--
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